Holding Standards in Game Design

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K
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Holding Standards in Game Design

Post by K » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:49 pm

I'll clean this up later. Right now, I just need a text dump.

noahivaldi: So, help my studies: What is it that you even like about FFRK, aside from FF shit?

Fri July 29, 12:00:22pm

TheRealKhane: who are you asking?

Fri July 29, 12:00:29pm

Granveil: Anyone who's willing to answer.

Fri July 29, 12:00:31pm

noahivaldi: Yes.

Fri July 29, 12:01:08pm

Granveil: It scratches the FF itch better than anything FF-related I've played that's not one of those "Totally not FF" games by people who used to work on FF.

Fri July 29, 12:01:08pm

TheRealKhane: One thing I kind of liked was that I learned about characters and story line of the FF games I never played.

Fri July 29, 12:01:35pm

Granveil: (e.g. Lost Odyssey, Last Story, Bravely Default)

Fri July 29, 12:02:00pm

TheRealKhane: I think for a lot of people its the nostalgia feeling you get when you first play it.

Fri July 29, 12:02:17pm

stillrando: FFRK is a FF game I can fit into my daily schedule. And being at the end game, there isn't much grinding anymore. Hits the right nostalgia notes.

Fri July 29, 12:02:18pm

Granveil: I don't really have any kind of rational reason for playing it. I shouldn't play it but then I keep feeling like I'm missing content and that stresses me out.

Fri July 29, 12:02:21pm

noahivaldi: So, thus far, I'm hearing "just FF shit." What else, though?

Fri July 29, 12:03:05pm

Granveil: All mobile games suck and shouldn't be played but we do it anyway because most of us don't have the mental fortitude to quit or not start.

Fri July 29, 12:03:11pm

Granveil: That's basically it.

Fri July 29, 12:03:40pm

TheRealKhane: its a lot harder to quit once you spend money on gems for this game.

Fri July 29, 12:03:49pm

CB1981: for me, I always enjoyed the ATB combat system of the classic FF games, and this in some ways takes it a lot further than Square did a lot of the times (case in point, the NM battles), and I enjoy loot games. Coming up empty occasionally really doesn't bother me

Fri July 29, 12:03:52pm

Granveil: I've spent $5.

Fri July 29, 12:04:01pm

Granveil: I have no plans to spend more.

Fri July 29, 12:04:07pm

CB1981: plus, as said above, there's a lot of nostalgia to it for me too

Fri July 29, 12:04:14pm

Granveil: I figure sacrificing 5 Faygos for a mobile game isn't a big deal.

Fri July 29, 12:04:16pm

stillrando: I haven't spent any money, and i don't plan to.

Fri July 29, 12:04:25pm

TheRealKhane: I once bought 7k gems for FFT and regret lol

Fri July 29, 12:04:46pm

noahivaldi: Hmm. Sad. We're all aware of the nostalgia bias and the investment fallacy, yet, with rare exceptions, we find ourselves unable to escape it.

Fri July 29, 12:04:50pm

Granveil: 1 Faygo/100 gems = 99 cents

Fri July 29, 12:04:51pm

TheRealKhane: didn't get a single 5* relic and it just made me decide to never buy gems for 11 pulls

Fri July 29, 12:05:01pm

CB1981: i've been playing it a year and a half, which is a lot more than i put into a good many full priced retail console/pc games, so i don't mind throwing a few bucks at it here and there

Fri July 29, 12:05:19pm

Granveil: Noah: Basically. I have some genetic issues with addiction but thankfully I never started smoking or drinking.

Fri July 29, 12:05:30pm

TheRealKhane: it will be a year for me come October.

Fri July 29, 12:06:04pm

Granveil: Same here.

Fri July 29, 12:06:12pm

TheRealKhane: I think they will give us new halloween items.

Fri July 29, 12:06:14pm

noahivaldi: CB, from a personal perspective, that is perfectly reasonable. How, though, do you reconcile that with the fact that your money is going to A) be completely negligible to the devs and B) be a wallet-mouth statement that you are okay with their low quality?

Fri July 29, 12:06:36pm

NamelessOne111: @TheRealKhane Second copy of the old ones, except with their evade fixed

Fri July 29, 12:06:40pm

NamelessOne111: That'd make me laugh.

Fri July 29, 12:06:41pm

Granveil: I've bought REGULAR RPGs on mobile.

Fri July 29, 12:06:46pm

TheRealKhane: lol

Fri July 29, 12:06:51pm

Granveil: Like 2.99 Kemco Games and TAY and RS2.

Fri July 29, 12:07:08pm

Granveil: But that's not really the same sort of "flushing money down the toilet" that buying gacha currency is unless you do IAPs.

Fri July 29, 12:07:10pm

NamelessOne111: As in, the FFX versions of them

Fri July 29, 12:07:13pm

noahivaldi: Gran, have you considered focusing your addictive nature toward a game that doesn't have microtransactions?

Fri July 29, 12:07:20pm

Granveil: See above.

Fri July 29, 12:07:22pm

CB1981: to A), i really don't see it any differently than, say the old era of paid subscription MMOs, or the fact that I never re-watch a movie i pay to see or replay many games i buy either

Fri July 29, 12:07:41pm

CB1981: it's part of the entertainment budget

Fri July 29, 12:07:44pm

noahivaldi: Right, well, those are markedly better, yes, but I meant like a totally free one that is still engaging.

Fri July 29, 12:07:48pm

Granveil: I've had health issues almost NON STOP since November 2015.

Fri July 29, 12:07:58pm

TheRealKhane: last night I got the celebration dagger and the shared rod from the gg store

Fri July 29, 12:08:13pm

Granveil: Sinus Infection->Bronchitis-.Cold->Cold Relapse->Constant Mental Stress From Selling House

Fri July 29, 12:08:21pm

CB1981: as for quality.. eh. for what i pay for it it seems reasonable enough to me. if i wasn't enjoying it i'd stop playing it

Fri July 29, 12:08:21pm

noahivaldi: Fun shit.

Fri July 29, 12:08:25pm

TheRealKhane: I decided not to combine them since I never pulled on a FFX banner

Fri July 29, 12:08:25pm

Granveil: And now I'm sick from summer weather.

Fri July 29, 12:08:38pm

Granveil: Basically I should be okay for normal games in a couple months.

Fri July 29, 12:08:56pm

Granveil: It's not like I NEVER play normal games, but I've just not felt healthy-enough to do much console gaming this year.

Fri July 29, 12:09:06pm

noahivaldi: CB: That reasoning is not entirely wrong, but look at it from a greater gaming perspective. How can we ever expect devs to up their game if we don't tell them that they should?

Fri July 29, 12:09:22pm

Granveil: I've played the fuck out of my 3DS.

Fri July 29, 12:09:31pm

Granveil: I'm almost at the end of PxZ2 and FE Fates on the Birthright path.

Fri July 29, 12:09:47pm

CB1981: Honestly, I really don't WANT this to be that much more complicated. I enjoy having something relatively simple to play on my phone on like, breaks at work, dr's visits, etc

Fri July 29, 12:09:54pm

CB1981: my complex stuff is for consoles/PCs

Fri July 29, 12:09:54pm

chriscorp: Hey dudes, I'm a spanish guy with a youtube channel based on ffrk, I upload videos of my battles and my strategy to win, so if you want, visit and leave your opinion about it, thank you!

Fri July 29, 12:10:00pm

Granveil: The past couple weeks were bad due to my back issues and my mother having to deal with her non-iodine diet and the surgery.

Fri July 29, 12:10:13pm

Granveil: Well, not surgery. Radiation-iodine treatment.

Fri July 29, 12:10:22pm

TheRealKhane: is she ok now?

Fri July 29, 12:10:36pm

Granveil: Yeah, she got the treatment yesterday morning and she'll be up and at 'em tomorrow morning.

Fri July 29, 12:10:48pm

TheRealKhane: great

Fri July 29, 12:11:04pm

TheRealKhane: hmmm the guy never gave us his youtube link.

Fri July 29, 12:11:21pm

chriscorp: Haha only put my name in youtube xD

Fri July 29, 12:11:46pm

chriscorp: Is a channel in spanish so maybe you don't understand

Fri July 29, 12:11:56pm

Granveil: Once my back issues and summer allergies sort themselves out I should be able to trippoh more often.

Fri July 29, 12:12:16pm

TheRealKhane: Ok I think I found your channel.

Fri July 29, 12:12:18pm

Granveil: Things would be worse if I was still at the old house. I wouldn't even be able to have the computer on during daylight hours.

Fri July 29, 12:12:22pm

chriscorp: Here is my channel link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXkayMgrhcbw8Zr_hMB9B1g

Fri July 29, 12:12:23pm

TheRealKhane: it's in spanish so it must be it

Fri July 29, 12:12:26pm

noahivaldi: CB: I didn't say anything about further complicating this game or anything else. I said improving the quality.

Fri July 29, 12:12:29pm

Granveil: And for all I know I would've lost power during rainstorms for DAYS.

Fri July 29, 12:12:44pm

noahivaldi: Gran: Have you considered Seinvocc? It's not a mobage game, but it is mobile-accessible.

Fri July 29, 12:12:46pm

Granveil: This apartment's on the part of a grid with a public service place so it goes back on REALLY fast.

Fri July 29, 12:13:03pm

Granveil: Is it a JRPG made by Japanese people?

Fri July 29, 12:13:20pm

Granveil: If not, then I'll pass.

Fri July 29, 12:13:37pm

chriscorp: I'm just starting to upload videos so, if you have any advice or something tell to me haha

Fri July 29, 12:13:49pm

chriscorp: In any case, anyone played FFBE?

Fri July 29, 12:14:36pm

Granveil: I've been hitting myself in the dick with that hammer, yes.

Fri July 29, 12:15:03pm

Granveil: (it's a metaphor)

Fri July 29, 12:15:14pm

CB1981: i guess i have a different definition then.. what exactly is really low quality about it?

Fri July 29, 12:15:47pm

TheRealKhane: @chriscorp I just saw your latest video.

Fri July 29, 12:15:55pm

CB1981: I can't get into BE. ive tried twice and it just doesn't grab my attention for whatever reason

Fri July 29, 12:16:07pm

noahivaldi: Yes, I play BE.

Fri July 29, 12:16:22pm

noahivaldi: Seinvocc has the elements of a JRPG along with other RPGs.

Fri July 29, 12:16:26pm

chriscorp: Ah great, @TheRealKhane and what's your opinion about it? (Sorry for my bad english)

Fri July 29, 12:17:14pm

Granveil: It's a mobile game. Mobile games are like hitting yourself in the dick with a hammer.

Fri July 29, 12:17:15pm

noahivaldi: Low quality elements include poor game balance, a Gacha system, RNG dependency (kinda' a part of the poor balance criticism), and unclear descriptions.

Fri July 29, 12:17:25pm

Granveil: Also I'm not feeling well so you shouldn't take me seriously.

Fri July 29, 12:17:50pm

noahivaldi: I take that seriously. Mobile app games really are like hitting yourself in the dick with a hammer.

Fri July 29, 12:17:58pm

Granveil: Also I'm still pissed FF Dimensions never got a Steam release.

Fri July 29, 12:18:14pm

Granveil: The biggest screen you can play it on is a tablet screen. That's lame.

Fri July 29, 12:18:14pm

CB1981: i'll definitely give you the shit descriptions. the game needs a lot more clarification in-game

Fri July 29, 12:18:15pm

TheRealKhane: @chriscorp your English is fine. It was a nice video.

Fri July 29, 12:18:39pm

noahivaldi: Oh, and of course, an energy system. Absolutely revolting.

Fri July 29, 12:19:14pm

chriscorp: BE, have something that invites me to play every day but... FFRK is my favourite haha

Fri July 29, 12:19:24pm

Granveil: At least all of Kemco's pay-once-and-done RPGs are fine mobile games!

Fri July 29, 12:19:34pm

Granveil: It's like a 16-bit RPG on your phone.

Fri July 29, 12:19:55pm

noahivaldi: Yeah, they're okay.

Fri July 29, 12:19:59pm

Granveil: Some of them have PSX graphics.

Fri July 29, 12:20:02pm

TheRealKhane: anyone here plays on an ipad type of device?

Fri July 29, 12:20:12pm

Granveil: It's a better use of 2.99 than gacha currency!

Fri July 29, 12:20:17pm

Granveil: Not as good as buying 3 Faygos.

Fri July 29, 12:20:22pm

noahivaldi: Not sure whether you're asking about Apple tablets specifically or tablets.

Fri July 29, 12:20:24pm

Granveil: I have FFD and FF5 on my iPod.

Fri July 29, 12:20:28pm

CB1981: eh, i don't love that, but it doesn't really bother me either, since i just find something else to do. without a stamina cost you could simply wipe all the content out in one day though

Fri July 29, 12:20:37pm

CB1981: i play on an android tablet and phone

Fri July 29, 12:20:38pm

Granveil: The screen's too fucking small.

Fri July 29, 12:20:43pm

TheRealKhane: I wanted to ask if you have problem with your device heating up?

Fri July 29, 12:20:48pm

noahivaldi: Yes, you could, and would that hinder the game at all?

Fri July 29, 12:21:05pm

noahivaldi: iPaids are always overheating. Water is wet.

Fri July 29, 12:21:10pm

Granveil: Gachagames are based around making you play for months and months and months.

Fri July 29, 12:21:19pm

chriscorp: Thanks @TheRealKhane actually I don't have so much visits per day but I like the game and upload it, I'm glad you like it

Fri July 29, 12:21:31pm

Granveil: My iPod never had heat problems. My phone only heats up when it's being charged.

Fri July 29, 12:21:31pm

CB1981: actually yes, because then it'd be imbalanced in the other direction since everyone would max out every 5 star ability in a week

Fri July 29, 12:21:45pm

TheRealKhane: @chriscorp yw

Fri July 29, 12:22:05pm

chriscorp: My friend plays in a Iphone 5S and doesn't have problems :S

Fri July 29, 12:22:27pm

nikolascmx: he is inside an iPhone 5s? cool

Fri July 29, 12:22:27pm

noahivaldi: And then, people would only get a challenge out of the endgame content, which they'd have to powercreep even more to keep players interested, further alienating new players, right?

Fri July 29, 12:22:40pm

TheRealKhane: lol niko

Fri July 29, 12:23:00pm

chriscorp: Oh sorry, my english sucks

Fri July 29, 12:23:01pm

noahivaldi: Right, right . . . But then, wouldn't the game not need an energy system if it were, you know, actually balanced?

Fri July 29, 12:23:19pm

chriscorp: I mean, "on" a iphone 5S

Fri July 29, 12:23:20pm

noahivaldi: Your English isn't so bad, Chris. Could use work, but then, so could most people's.

Fri July 29, 12:23:25pm

CB1981: litterally no final fantasy ever has been balanced, so I doubt they'd get it right that way either

Fri July 29, 12:23:32pm

nikolascmx: @chriscorp no problem, everyone understood what you meant, I was just making a joke xD

Fri July 29, 12:23:34pm

TheRealKhane: oh got another green drop!

Fri July 29, 12:23:50pm

Granveil: If they were going to get rid of the stamina system for FFBE they'd have to charge for downloads and then make gacha currency farmable so they could get profits.

Fri July 29, 12:23:56pm

nikolascmx: @TheRealKhane fuck you I got only 1 drop in more than 7 runs

Fri July 29, 12:23:59pm

nikolascmx:

Fri July 29, 12:24:04pm

TheRealKhane:

Fri July 29, 12:24:07pm

noahivaldi: I'll give you that! I don't think that they could get it right with their current effort output, either.

Fri July 29, 12:24:21pm

noahivaldi: Then, what can we do to tell them to apply more effort?

Fri July 29, 12:24:22pm

Granveil: I'd pay 2.99 for a no-stamina FFBE that has infinite lapis.

Fri July 29, 12:24:29pm

TheRealKhane: if it makes you feel better, I got shot by the stupid aoe from the red dragon twice in a fight lol

Fri July 29, 12:24:35pm

chriscorp: Hahaha It's ok, you are nice people

Fri July 29, 12:24:43pm

Granveil: Global fanbase doesn't matter for games that aren't natively in English.

Fri July 29, 12:24:54pm

nikolascmx: @TheRealKhane nope, doesn't make me feel better, fuck you

Fri July 29, 12:24:55pm

CB1981: see, i really don't see there being much of an issue with it currently other than the fact mages suck currently, and that IS being addressed, with faithgas and chaincasts coming

Fri July 29, 12:24:56pm

nikolascmx: xD

Fri July 29, 12:24:58pm

Granveil: No matter what we ask of Gumi/Alim unless we're Japanese they'll laugh at us.

Fri July 29, 12:25:16pm

CB1981: no game based on getting loot is ever going to be balanced. there's no draw to the game if it is

Fri July 29, 12:25:18pm

noahivaldi: That's entirely true, Gran.

Fri July 29, 12:25:18pm

TheRealKhane: oh just got rinoa RM

Fri July 29, 12:25:22pm

noahivaldi: Verbally, that is.

Fri July 29, 12:25:47pm

TheRealKhane: niko too much salt is bad for you!

Fri July 29, 12:25:57pm

Granveil: I've had Rinoa's RMs for months!

Fri July 29, 12:26:01pm

noahivaldi: And yes, that's right, CB. I mean, I think that "loot-based" is a silly way to try to categorize games, but yes, games with this monetezation scheme need to be bad to make profits.

Fri July 29, 12:26:02pm

nikolascmx: nah, salt makes everything tastier

Fri July 29, 12:26:12pm

TheRealKhane: but too much can kill!

Fri July 29, 12:26:19pm

CB1981: even non-gatcha games with drops are like that

Fri July 29, 12:26:31pm

TheRealKhane: I finally decided to get my FF8 guys their RM for lvl 65

Fri July 29, 12:26:37pm

chriscorp: Hey anyone could defeat Ifrit with a FFVIII team? It's amazing how can defeat you so easily

Fri July 29, 12:26:39pm

CB1981: Diablo, PoE, PSO, etc, all have "best in slot" gear

Fri July 29, 12:26:58pm

Granveil: I don't even like games like that because none of them are "player party"-based.

Fri July 29, 12:27:06pm

shivan128: @chriscorp i will be trying tonight... will probably post my results here later

Fri July 29, 12:27:06pm

Granveil: You need other human players to make a party. Fuck that noise.

Fri July 29, 12:27:07pm

noahivaldi: So, what have we established? Mobage games profit by making people \buy power/, but depriving them of ever having enough power to experience the full game unless they're total whales, right?

Fri July 29, 12:27:14pm

Granveil: Yup.

Fri July 29, 12:27:23pm

TheRealKhane: now to sub in Irvine for Rinoa on my next run

Fri July 29, 12:27:39pm

Granveil: "mobage games" is redundant, btw. It's like those people who say "JRPG games".

Fri July 29, 12:27:58pm

noahivaldi: Oh, yeah, that's right. I'm not used to using the term "mobage."

Fri July 29, 12:28:00pm

CB1981: i'm almost a pure sololist in those games, ironically

Fri July 29, 12:28:09pm

Granveil: But yeah, you have a perfectly valid point.

Fri July 29, 12:28:11pm

noahivaldi: Thanks for the correction.

Fri July 29, 12:28:53pm

Granveil: I'm sure if I could convince myself I don't need gachagames in my life I could quit and use my phone to play 2.99 Kemco JRPGs while I'm on the toilet or out of the house, but I've yet to figure out how.

Fri July 29, 12:29:03pm

noahivaldi: Anyway, these games make profits in a way that is morally wrong. Plenty of devs make plenty of money without crossing certain lines. Just ask the EC folks. Then, how do we get more game content without all miraculously becoming whales?

Fri July 29, 12:29:10pm

shivan128: ugh, dont start with kemco games

Fri July 29, 12:29:15pm

Granveil: I LIKE THOSE GAMES.

Fri July 29, 12:29:25pm

Granveil: I HAVE LOW STANDARDS AND AM SO OLD NOTHING BOTHERS ME ANYMORE

Fri July 29, 12:29:29pm

shivan128: if you want lazy ass repetitive RPGS, kemco is for you

Fri July 29, 12:29:54pm

Granveil: I like JRPG comfort food.

Fri July 29, 12:29:58pm

MonkunRS: Kemco - We churn out RPGs by the hour.

Fri July 29, 12:29:58pm

noahivaldi: I have only just started my studies in Kemco games, but I will say that the storylines are quite predictable.

Fri July 29, 12:30:04pm

Granveil: Innovation gives me indigestion.

Fri July 29, 12:30:07pm

chriscorp: @shivan128 For me it's impossible with a FFVIII team, when he uses meteor it's the end hahaha I need a roaming warrior with sentinels grimoire, but I use shout...xD

Fri July 29, 12:30:51pm

noahivaldi: Is CB still here?

Fri July 29, 12:30:54pm

Granveil: Not literally, but I'm...a really sad and pathetic "low-hanging fruit" JRPG player who doesn't really care as long as it's a JRPG and not ridiculously hilariously fucking awful by my admittedly-low standards.

Fri July 29, 12:31:15pm

CB1981: i dunno,to me mobile's model just seems like a modern version of the arcade model, where you're paying to keep going unless you're able to find a way to stay alive without spending

Fri July 29, 12:31:20pm

shivan128: @chriscorp i think most teams lose once meteor hits

Fri July 29, 12:31:23pm

CB1981: but in fairness, i'm also a dinosaur

Fri July 29, 12:31:37pm

Granveil: Are you the one from Dinosaur Comics?!

Fri July 29, 12:31:38pm

noahivaldi: Funny that you should mention arcade games, CB!

Fri July 29, 12:32:16pm

Granveil: (that's a joke)

Fri July 29, 12:32:17pm

CB1981: no, i'm one of the creaky stop motion claymation ones

Fri July 29, 12:32:17pm

noahivaldi: You know, the games that are classically regarded as ripoff machines because of their insane difficulty that extorts quarter after quarter after quarter . . .

Fri July 29, 12:32:48pm

Granveil: The insane difficulty usually transfers to the console version D:

Fri July 29, 12:32:55pm

Granveil: At least arcade games can be emulated for free play mode!

Fri July 29, 12:33:09pm

Granveil: I seriously don't think there was ever a non-bullshit version of Altered Beast.

Fri July 29, 12:33:13pm

noahivaldi: Just recently watched a video about games that the devs made literally unbeatable . . . The horrors . . .

Fri July 29, 12:33:19pm

Granveil: SORRY I'M GOING OFF ON A TANGENT HERE

Fri July 29, 12:33:23pm

Granveil: I'M OLD. I DO THIS.

Fri July 29, 12:33:32pm

noahivaldi: No, you're fine. What you're talking about is perfectly relevant.

Fri July 29, 12:33:34pm

CB1981: I.. have a soft spot for Altered Beast (wise from your gwave!)

Fri July 29, 12:34:16pm

Granveil: But yeah, maybe when I stop being sick I can break the habit.

Fri July 29, 12:34:22pm

SilentJon69: so no Faris BSB hype??

Fri July 29, 12:34:24pm

chriscorp: @shivan128 Then you must have a lot of sinergy to resists his attacks

Fri July 29, 12:34:25pm

Granveil: I'm going on seven months of being in less than optimum health.

Fri July 29, 12:34:41pm

Granveil: Thank ghod I don't smoke or drink or else I'd look like I was in my 50s.

Fri July 29, 12:34:56pm

shivan128: @chriscorp i do... i will try my hardest to get through this fight... but without wall.

Fri July 29, 12:35:00pm

noahivaldi: So, if you look back at some arcade games that you played, you may say, "Okay, I probably shouldn't have spent as much as I did for that little bit of gameplay, but at least the actual total is a manageable amount," like, say, $50.

Fri July 29, 12:35:01pm

MonkunRS: So we're not getting Faris MC2?

Fri July 29, 12:35:10pm

SilentJon69: nope

Fri July 29, 12:35:11pm

Granveil: Nobody knows.

Fri July 29, 12:35:12pm

MonkunRS: /runsaway

Fri July 29, 12:35:13pm

shivan128: wtf?

Fri July 29, 12:35:20pm

Granveil: (the trouble I've seen)

Fri July 29, 12:35:23pm

Granveil: (nobody knows but Jesus)

Fri July 29, 12:35:27pm

Granveil: (...she's a bass!)

Fri July 29, 12:35:41pm

shivan128: barfolmew!

Fri July 29, 12:35:52pm

CB1981: funny, she doesn't look Druish

Fri July 29, 12:35:52pm

noahivaldi: You look at the devs of those games and say, "You guys, that was dirty, but at least you gave me some fun that I couldn't get elsewhere."

Fri July 29, 12:35:57pm

Granveil: Actually, I think Faris would have a low-for-a-female voice.

Fri July 29, 12:36:07pm

noahivaldi: Now, look at mobage devs and say the same thing.

Fri July 29, 12:36:23pm

Granveil: Like in JP that woman who's known for voicing young men and reverse traps.

Fri July 29, 12:36:32pm

noahivaldi: You can't, right? The entertainment that they provide could be obtained much more cheaply elsewhere.

Fri July 29, 12:36:36pm

Granveil: I forgot her name. She's the JP VA for Mao from Disgaea 3 and the in-game voice of Makoto from Idolmaster.

Fri July 29, 12:36:48pm

CB1981: i don't disagree that some of them are super shady (Game of War for example, that game is pretty much unplayable if you don't throw bundles of cash at it)

Fri July 29, 12:36:56pm

noahivaldi: I think that I know who you're talking about, Gran, but I don't recall the name.

Fri July 29, 12:37:10pm

CB1981: but i think bang for your buck is a subjective thing

Fri July 29, 12:37:13pm

Granveil: Makoto had a different VA in the anime. I want to say Eri Kitamura.

Fri July 29, 12:37:20pm

Granveil: Who is <3 like whoa.

Fri July 29, 12:37:24pm

MonkunRS: https://www.reddit.com/r/FFRecordKeeper/comments/4v4ktm/i_noticed_that_the_ingame_notification_didnt_list/

Fri July 29, 12:37:27pm

Granveil: She's also Homura (the Senran) and Juri Han.

Fri July 29, 12:37:53pm

CB1981: gaw, damn. I really wanted her MC2.

Fri July 29, 12:38:09pm

CB1981: I'm guessing it'll be a hall of rites drop for us

Fri July 29, 12:38:15pm

Granveil: I'm terrified of Juri but I think she's fucking hot.

Fri July 29, 12:38:34pm

Granveil: I'm less-afraid of the Amazonians from Futurama as I am of Juri.

Fri July 29, 12:38:47pm

noahivaldi: And how much bang are you getting? You are playing a game that can be wiped out without a trace, no replayability, no compensation, no nothing, at any moment, and you can spend $400 and still be gated off from half the game. The whole game's content is less than that of a \real/ game, and you'll never see half of it.

Fri July 29, 12:38:52pm

CB1981: well, death by sno-sno is a decent way to go

Fri July 29, 12:39:12pm

noahivaldi: snu-snu*

Fri July 29, 12:39:15pm

Granveil: If we're talking tall girl snoo-snoo I'd prefer Yuugi or Kanako.

Fri July 29, 12:39:25pm

sanikku: Hello

Fri July 29, 12:39:37pm

Granveil: Well, Kanako's not TALL TALL, she's probably 6'. But if Yuugi's less than 6'3" I'll be amazed.

Fri July 29, 12:39:41pm

sanikku: Can someone explain whats going on in jp

Fri July 29, 12:39:47pm

Granveil: What do you mean?

Fri July 29, 12:39:49pm

misspelled10: hey

Fri July 29, 12:39:50pm

CB1981: yeah, and if someone wants to spend their whole paycheck on a game and subsidize the rest of us, they can go for it for all i care

Fri July 29, 12:39:53pm

noahivaldi: Hi, fast-goer.

Fri July 29, 12:40:05pm

CB1981: it's no different than someone blowing their money in vegas or whatever

Fri July 29, 12:40:06pm

sanikku: There was a movie when i launchedthe game

Fri July 29, 12:40:15pm

sanikku: Hey @misspelled10 @noahivaldi

Fri July 29, 12:40:18pm

noahivaldi: Quite different, actually.

Fri July 29, 12:40:21pm

Granveil: Because Multiplayer is now 100% official.

Fri July 29, 12:40:26pm

sanikku: Oh

Fri July 29, 12:40:47pm

noahivaldi: If someone gambles in Vegas, they have chances, albeit low, of walking away with some gains in their drunken stupor.

Fri July 29, 12:40:50pm

Granveil: So everyone got a massive injection of mythril.

Fri July 29, 12:40:55pm

sanikku: Hmm

Fri July 29, 12:40:59pm

sanikku: Alright thanks

Fri July 29, 12:41:35pm

noahivaldi: When someone gambles in a game like this, they aren't just supporting a casino of poor odds; they're supporting a deceptive casino in the gaming industry.

Fri July 29, 12:42:14pm

noahivaldi: Now, as a native Nevadan, I will say that casinos have their place in society, and that their mere existence is not a blight upon anything or anyone except those with an obsessive compulsion.

Fri July 29, 12:42:40pm

Granveil: I don't gamble IRL. Not even the "bet you $5 that..." kind of gambling.

Fri July 29, 12:43:17pm

chriscorp: @shivan128 Without Wall, OMG, Get lucky!!!

Fri July 29, 12:43:17pm

Granveil: The face on the FF14 event banner in JP is terrifying.

Fri July 29, 12:43:21pm

MonkunRS: Casinos are fun

Fri July 29, 12:43:32pm

noahivaldi: As a gamer and dev, though, I will say that deceptive casinos in gaming form have no place being 85%+ of the monetezation models for our entertainment.

Fri July 29, 12:43:34pm

misspelled10: Nevada!! cool!

Fri July 29, 12:43:54pm

MonkunRS: not the "manufactured" casino known as gacha games though

Fri July 29, 12:43:55pm

Granveil: I've never been to Vegas. Hell, I've ONLY been on the west side of the Mississippi River to go to San Francisco in 1998.

Fri July 29, 12:44:02pm

noahivaldi: Monk gets it.

Fri July 29, 12:44:19pm

noahivaldi: Yeah, most of we Nevadans avoid Vegas, too.

Fri July 29, 12:44:24pm

noahivaldi: By about 400 miles, in fact.

Fri July 29, 12:44:38pm

Granveil: My uncle lives in Vegas now.

Fri July 29, 12:44:42pm

noahivaldi: My condolences.

Fri July 29, 12:44:45pm

Granveil: I don't know if he's still a bail bondsman or he retired.

Fri July 29, 12:44:49pm

CB1981: i really don't see what's so deceptive about it, nowhere do you get promised anything, nor do you have to pay money to do so, since they give you in game currency.

Fri July 29, 12:44:59pm

CB1981: manipulative, sure, but not deceptive

Fri July 29, 12:45:00pm

Granveil: He's not even 60, though.

Fri July 29, 12:45:16pm

Granveil: 56 years old, 3 children, 2 of them under 12 years old.

Fri July 29, 12:45:21pm

noahivaldi: A casino in the "real" world is clearly labeled as a casino.

Fri July 29, 12:45:26pm

Granveil: His eldest daughter is like 3 years younger than me.

Fri July 29, 12:45:50pm

nikolascmx: ^ what CB says

Fri July 29, 12:45:57pm

Granveil: HEY WHERE'S OMEGA

Fri July 29, 12:46:04pm

Granveil: I AM SUMMONING YOUR BARTZ BEAM TODAY

Fri July 29, 12:46:19pm

noahivaldi: If someone doesn't understand casinos and how the odds are against the players, but players have reasons to play anyway, they not only have a wide range of resources to look up the obvious facts, but casino staff will actually explain it all from the ground up.

Fri July 29, 12:46:26pm

MonkunRS: Well one of the biggest thing imo is that there's like zero transparency outside of Japan for gacha - you can calculate the odds on any casino game depending on the rule variations. Gacha is like... whatever the dev/finance teams feel like

Fri July 29, 12:46:47pm

Granveil: Noah: You can also be "skilled" and "unskilled" at things like Poker and Blackjack.

Fri July 29, 12:46:52pm

nikolascmx: it's like everything in this world now has to be retarded proof "Look, these gems you're buying, you're exchanging them for real money" "Press Yes if you understand"

Fri July 29, 12:46:53pm

noahivaldi: Exactly, Monk.

Fri July 29, 12:47:16pm

noahivaldi: No, Nikolas, that's not what I'm saying. Don't put words in my mouth. Hear me out.

Fri July 29, 12:48:01pm

Granveil: Although I sort of get how to play blackjack I'd never actually try to win money in it in Vegas.

Fri July 29, 12:48:02pm

noahivaldi: And yes, many gambling games involve user variation, which at least partially compensates for their \already calculated and established/ bad odds.

Fri July 29, 12:48:25pm

nikolascmx: I sometimes read new about kids emptying their parents credit cards on mobile game like Clash of whaterever

Fri July 29, 12:48:40pm

Granveil: I'd probably spend $5 on nickel slots, then go back to the hotel room, crank one out at the iPad, shower, and go to bed.

Fri July 29, 12:48:54pm

noahivaldi: In a mobage, you do not walk into a casino, you do not show ID, and you do not have anyone sitting right next to you and advising you against spending your grocery money.

Fri July 29, 12:49:40pm

noahivaldi: You are allowed and even encouraged to join as early as possible and spend as much as you have.

Fri July 29, 12:50:08pm

Granveil: BAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRTZ BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAMMMMMMMMMMMMMUUUUUUUUU

Fri July 29, 12:50:10pm

Granveil: :3

Fri July 29, 12:50:13pm

noahivaldi: But hey, enough of regulations! That still doesn't make it "deceptive," just wrong on other levels, right?

Fri July 29, 12:50:15pm

CB1981: most casinos will happily take your grocery money and do all sorts of things to keep you playing, from free food and comp'd drinks to not having clocks or windows to keep you from realizing how long you've been there

Fri July 29, 12:50:17pm

nikolascmx: indeed but that's when Natural selection happens

Fri July 29, 12:50:25pm

nikolascmx: i'm pro Natural selection

Fri July 29, 12:50:40pm

CB1981: yeah, take all the warning labels off of everything and let darwin sort'em out

Fri July 29, 12:50:51pm

noahivaldi: Sure, sure, there are bad parts of real casinos, too. I'm not here to glorify them.

Fri July 29, 12:50:53pm

nikolascmx: I don't want to sound like a dick but yes, that's my thought

Fri July 29, 12:51:31pm

Granveil: Aren't casinos mostly just a government-sancionted way of letting the native Americans get us back for all the shit we did to them? (that's a joke)

Fri July 29, 12:51:33pm

noahivaldi: Yeah, sure, let people waste as much money as they want. Sure, sure. People are free to make bad decisions, and others are free to call those decisions bad. No arguments there.

Fri July 29, 12:52:16pm

nikolascmx: i don't even judge those decisions, i'm not the type

Fri July 29, 12:52:25pm

Granveil: At this point I have nothing meaningful to contribute to the conversation and am just being an asshole.

Fri July 29, 12:52:26pm

nikolascmx: i'm about individualism

Fri July 29, 12:52:37pm

noahivaldi: This is known and limited to adults, whom are supposed to be of an age at which they should know things and are held accountable in casinos . . . but even the youngest kids are targeted in mobages.

Fri July 29, 12:52:38pm

CB1981: @Granveil I laughed at it because i am too

Fri July 29, 12:53:13pm

noahivaldi: But hey, let's look beyond that. We're still trying too hard to focus on the individual.

Fri July 29, 12:53:15pm

Granveil: Mobile games suck, they shouldn't exist, but there's nothing sane people can do except lament.

Fri July 29, 12:53:19pm

shivan128: i expect 50% of my gem purchases back as a refund. =/
@noahivaldi

Fri July 29, 12:53:20pm

CB1981: sorry, if you don't password your account and prevent your kids from spending your money on a video game, I'm not blaming the kid for that

Fri July 29, 12:53:27pm

nikolascmx: @Granveil lol

Fri July 29, 12:54:24pm

noahivaldi: No, man, kids can have their own phones and . . . You know, I said that we need to get away from the individual analysis, and thart clearly isn't going to happen if I don't lead the way.

Fri July 29, 12:55:04pm

noahivaldi: So, here we go: Where does this money \go/?

Fri July 29, 12:55:34pm

Granveil: To pay for the game's upkeep so it can continue to make money?

Fri July 29, 12:55:45pm

Granveil: And also fund coke parties during lucrative seasons?

Fri July 29, 12:55:48pm

noahivaldi: To the devs, yes, but what part of it actually matters to the upkeep?

Fri July 29, 12:55:56pm

noahivaldi: Mostly fund coke parties, haha.

Fri July 29, 12:55:56pm

CB1981: don't forget the fat ceo's second yacht

Fri July 29, 12:55:56pm

Granveil: Who knows!

Fri July 29, 12:56:06pm

noahivaldi: Third yacht, mate. Third.

Fri July 29, 12:56:44pm

noahivaldi: Okay, well, some basic metrics tell you that mobages make almost ALL their profits on less than 8% of their players.

Fri July 29, 12:57:11pm

nikolascmx: the so called Whales

Fri July 29, 12:57:18pm

nikolascmx: sorry....

Fri July 29, 12:57:28pm

noahivaldi: Almost. All. Think about it. We're not talking about some higher-paying individuals providing a majority of the support. We're talking about a few whales bringing in boatloads of cash.

Fri July 29, 12:57:44pm

noahivaldi: No need to be sorry. That's right. We call them whales. You know where the term came from, right?

Fri July 29, 12:58:05pm

Granveil: MMOs?

Fri July 29, 12:58:09pm

nikolascmx: nope, I do not know, I just embraced the term

Fri July 29, 12:58:13pm

noahivaldi: Try again.

Fri July 29, 12:58:14pm

Granveil: The whole "the ones keeping the game afloat" thing.

Fri July 29, 12:58:28pm

Granveil: Someone told me and I forgot because I'm senile.

Fri July 29, 12:59:02pm

noahivaldi: The ones that pop up out of the ocean and make a big splash, though not necessarily a useful one.

Fri July 29, 12:59:16pm

noahivaldi: It's a gambling term. It came from poker.

Fri July 29, 12:59:56pm

noahivaldi: Just gonna' let that sink in for a bit.

Fri July 29, 1:00:00pm

nikolascmx: well from the devs POV those splashes are always useful

Fri July 29, 1:00:43pm

nikolascmx: but that's kind of obvious

Fri July 29, 1:00:50pm

noahivaldi: Yes, the gaming adaptation of the term does carry the implication that the splashes are useful. You're right.

Fri July 29, 1:01:33pm

Granveil: imma gonna stop being here and go do something else

Fri July 29, 1:01:42pm

noahivaldi: So, the whales (the heavy-hitting gamblers) provide all of the support and literal boatloads of profit all on their own.

Fri July 29, 1:01:42pm

Granveil: Maybe lay down to make my back hurt less

Fri July 29, 1:01:53pm

noahivaldi: You should lay down and be here at the same time, Gran.

Fri July 29, 1:02:11pm

Granveil: My PC is too far away from the bed and I'm not chatting here on my mobile.

Fri July 29, 1:02:30pm

noahivaldi: Fair. Take it easy, mate.

Fri July 29, 1:02:40pm

Granveil: Have fun doing whatever it is you do in life! :3

Fri July 29, 1:02:45pm

noahivaldi: Take the food for thought that I have given, and come back for more later. :3

Fri July 29, 1:02:47pm

CB1981: 'later

Fri July 29, 1:02:51pm

nikolascmx: so the game technically gets the upkeep just thanks (or cause?) to those few ones

Fri July 29, 1:03:08pm

justinkal: How high should BDs be honed for Nightmare CPU?

Fri July 29, 1:03:25pm

noahivaldi: Right, Nikolas. The game's upkeep is 10,000% paid for by the whales

Fri July 29, 1:03:40pm

noahivaldi: . . . and our money is legit not even coffee money to the devs.

Fri July 29, 1:03:41pm

CB1981: depends on how much damage you can throw at the cpu itself, but r3 is probably okay for most builds, i imagine

Fri July 29, 1:03:47pm

MonkunRS: Can anyone that plays FFBE test this? http://ffbe.kongbakpao.com/test-page/

Fri July 29, 1:03:53pm

noahivaldi: Justin: I'd advise R3.

Fri July 29, 1:04:03pm

justinkal: If 4 characters are above the softcap after native Shout?

Fri July 29, 1:04:24pm

CB1981: do you have any big burst SBs you can focus on the CPU?

Fri July 29, 1:04:33pm

justinkal: And the fifth is white mage Tyro with native SG.

Fri July 29, 1:04:35pm

nikolascmx: So the aegeal question is, should we love "whales"?

Fri July 29, 1:04:54pm

nikolascmx: i'm still uncertain about giving a yes

Fri July 29, 1:05:10pm

noahivaldi: Monk: Looks right.

Fri July 29, 1:05:17pm

MonkunRS: Awesome, thanks Noah

Fri July 29, 1:05:29pm

noahivaldi: No prob.

Fri July 29, 1:05:38pm

noahivaldi: We should have mixed feelings toward whales.

Fri July 29, 1:05:52pm

CB1981: eh, they subsidize the game for me, so i'm okay with'em. i'm not convinced the whale freemium model will be one that lasts for a long time though. I think at some point that model will crash

Fri July 29, 1:05:53pm

noahivaldi: And we should have much worse, but still mixed feelings toward the devs.

Fri July 29, 1:05:55pm

justinkal: Party is Tyro with most of his Grimoires, Ramza with all his SBs, Quina with MG9, Gordon with Goddess's Bell, and Sazh with both Boon and SSB.

Fri July 29, 1:06:22pm

noahivaldi: CB: Oh, you stumbled right into my next point again! Man, it's like I've been in this discussion a few times. xD

Fri July 29, 1:06:36pm

noahivaldi: That's a pretty sexy party, Justin.

Fri July 29, 1:06:42pm

justinkal: Goddess's Bell is AOE 3 hit dual BD, and Ramza can bring Hail of Stones.

Fri July 29, 1:07:01pm

noahivaldi: So yes, this monetezation model should crash. Should \have crashed/, as a matter of fact . . . but it hasn't.

Fri July 29, 1:07:03pm

CB1981: aoe can be dangerous in the CPU fight because it can force him to phase 3 if you kill both nodes in 2

Fri July 29, 1:07:16pm

CB1981: that's where i ran into trouble, myself

Fri July 29, 1:07:23pm

justinkal: It's AOE, but it's a regular SB

Fri July 29, 1:07:23pm

noahivaldi: Remember, though, Justin, that it won't count as the Breakdowns.

Fri July 29, 1:07:58pm

noahivaldi: As the EC folks point out, this model keeps getting reused, and it's been years and years.

Fri July 29, 1:08:01pm

justinkal: Alternatively, Gordon has one of the best default SBs in the entire game

Fri July 29, 1:08:34pm

noahivaldi: Especially in this industry, that's an eternity.

Fri July 29, 1:08:53pm

noahivaldi: We have a system that isn't working. We keep using it. Can someone tell me why?

Fri July 29, 1:08:58pm

CB1981: as long as you're careful not to kill them both at the same time you're fine.. they respawn and you have the 10 rounds before quad, so it should probably be doable

Fri July 29, 1:09:31pm

nikolascmx: @noahivaldi I guess because "Inertia"

Fri July 29, 1:09:33pm

justinkal: Ramza's Hail of Stones or Tailwind could be useful too, so his second slot is going to be Lifesiphon.

Fri July 29, 1:09:46pm

nikolascmx: idk if that's the right word, I translated it

Fri July 29, 1:10:07pm

nikolascmx: inactivity, passivity

Fri July 29, 1:10:08pm

noahivaldi: Inertia is one correct word, yes.

Fri July 29, 1:10:15pm

CB1981: yeah, i used hail of stones for damage output myself.. i actually wound up bringing a non-support combat guy for exact focus

Fri July 29, 1:10:22pm

noahivaldi: Oh, if that's what you were going for, no, it's not.

Fri July 29, 1:10:23pm

CB1981: extra, rather

Fri July 29, 1:10:25pm

shivan128: single target physical attack is the way to go

Fri July 29, 1:10:31pm

justinkal: Should I put a SB bar RM on Tyro for SG, or on Quina for MG9?

Fri July 29, 1:10:48pm

nikolascmx: idk Inertia was the first result

Fri July 29, 1:10:51pm

CB1981: SG.. the only time you need it is phase one when the attack node is blasting you

Fri July 29, 1:10:55pm

noahivaldi: But then, that means that you've hit two points of the right answer, Nikolas.

Fri July 29, 1:10:58pm

justinkal: And what's a good RW for CPU if you have all that stuff native?

Fri July 29, 1:11:16pm

CB1981: @justinkal I actually RW'd shout so i could focus on throwing rocks with Ramza

Fri July 29, 1:11:38pm

noahivaldi: Here's the answer: As far as the devs are concerned, this model that totally \does not work/ for anyone in the long term, dev or player, "works" to them.

Fri July 29, 1:11:44pm

noahivaldi: And why do they think that?

Fri July 29, 1:12:05pm

justinkal: @CB1981 Ace Striker or sword damage?

Fri July 29, 1:12:16pm

CB1981: because very few companies are willing/capable of thinking long term.

Fri July 29, 1:12:25pm

CB1981: hell, few people ing eneral are

Fri July 29, 1:12:28pm

noahivaldi: Justin, when all else fails, bringing a nice BSB for more damage output is nice.

Fri July 29, 1:12:40pm

CB1981: i went with ace, myself

Fri July 29, 1:12:54pm

CB1981: the RS from being in NM seemed plenty for actual damage

Fri July 29, 1:12:57pm

noahivaldi: There's truth to that, CB, but these companies \have/ to in order to survive and receive support, right?

Fri July 29, 1:13:38pm

nikolascmx: short term means means money in hand right now or very soon, lucidity goes lacking and rip long term

Fri July 29, 1:13:45pm

noahivaldi: Oho, but they don't. They have in the past, and they've made good decisions in the past . . . but the people in charge are getting old, and they don't care about the long term, any more. They just want to get what "works" in the short term and cash out.

Fri July 29, 1:14:21pm

noahivaldi: Right. So then, our problem is, ding ding ding, we are supporting their addiction to short-term profits.

Fri July 29, 1:15:42pm

noahivaldi: "But Noah," I hear you say, "if our money is so insignificant to them, what does it matter what we do or don't support? How does this evolve beyond the individual decisions for those of us that aren't whales?"

Fri July 29, 1:15:59pm

noahivaldi: "Er, those that aren't, and also will never have the money to become whales, ehehe?"

Fri July 29, 1:16:43pm

noahivaldi: That's the funny part that's hard to get people's heads around: How much our wallets speak is WAY disproportionate to how much they actually put out.

Fri July 29, 1:18:15pm

noahivaldi: If a game, say FFRK got actually 100% of its profits from whales, not a single casual spender at all, their profits would not noticeably suffer. That's true. However, the devs obtain metrics on this. They're really excited about metrics, probably too much so, in some cases . . .

Fri July 29, 1:18:42pm

noahivaldi: Anyway, they would \notice/. They'd notice this, and they'd see that something changed, and probably in a negative way.

Fri July 29, 1:18:53pm

Victorys1996: Hello.

Fri July 29, 1:18:53pm

Victorys1996:

Fri July 29, 1:18:57pm

justinkal: Actually, since I won't even be using Quina's MG9, I'll swap for Fran so that I can have Powerchain for DPS at the end.

Fri July 29, 1:18:59pm

MonkunRS: dog e

Fri July 29, 1:18:59pm

noahivaldi: Moreover, whales would see the same trends.

Fri July 29, 1:19:03pm

CB1981: 'lo

Fri July 29, 1:19:07pm

noahivaldi: Yo, Victorys.

Fri July 29, 1:19:11pm

misspelled10:
hai
@Granveil

Fri July 29, 1:19:19pm

CB1981: @justinkal yeah, that'd probably make more sense.. the burst of damage will help

Fri July 29, 1:19:27pm

noahivaldi: I relayed your "WHALEEEEEEE!" to someone yesterday. I think that it was Monk.

Fri July 29, 1:19:39pm

misspelled10: lol granveil

Fri July 29, 1:19:53pm

Victorys1996: @noahivaldi I'm proud.

Fri July 29, 1:20:15pm

nikolascmx: @Victorys1996 now go back and read it all, it's your fault

Fri July 29, 1:20:18pm

noahivaldi: So, we cheap-asses can get noticed by the whales and devs in some way.

Fri July 29, 1:20:23pm

nikolascmx:

Fri July 29, 1:20:24pm

noahivaldi: Lmao!

Fri July 29, 1:20:24pm

Victorys1996: omg

Fri July 29, 1:20:42pm

noahivaldi: If we can be noticed, the game can change.

Fri July 29, 1:20:46pm

justinkal: There's another support whom I have a good SB for, but I'm not considering bringing. Edward

Fri July 29, 1:20:56pm

noahivaldi: And more importantly than just any one game changing, attitudes can change.

Fri July 29, 1:21:04pm

strugglehevy: hello

Fri July 29, 1:21:06pm

noahivaldi: Yo.

Fri July 29, 1:21:13pm

Victorys1996: hi

Fri July 29, 1:21:47pm

misspelled10: hai

Fri July 29, 1:22:09pm

strugglehevy: got my 1st big fag lucky draw dud lol

Fri July 29, 1:22:15pm

noahivaldi: If whales get the message that, if they want to just pay to stomp people, they can pay to stomp each other until they realize how boring it is, and if devs get the message that cheap-asses aren't going to buy into or even try their dumbass games as long as it's just that . . .

Fri July 29, 1:22:20pm

strugglehevy: big fat*

Fri July 29, 1:22:42pm

noahivaldi: . . . devs will have to wake up to the fact that their monetezation model is bogus, so they'll inevitably have to try a new one.

Fri July 29, 1:23:01pm

noahivaldi: Those that don't, that stick with this one, will die off. As...

Fri July 29, 1:23:30pm

nikolascmx:
...

Fri July 29, 1:24:07pm

noahivaldi: With a different monetezation model, maybe one from the other ~1...

Fri July 29, 1:24:26pm

noahivaldi: They'd get better, devs would be rewarded more in the long t...

Fri July 29, 1:24:47pm

nikolascmx: and games would also get of higher quality...

Fri July 29, 1:24:57pm

noahivaldi: That's what I said.
...

Fri July 29, 1:25:14pm

nikolascmx: oh yeah, misread that line...

Fri July 29, 1:26:16pm

Victorys1996: Oh...

Fri July 29, 1:26:22pm

nikolascmx: now it remains to see just how long will this process take...

Fri July 29, 1:26:26pm

CB1981: frankly i don't expect anything to change until we hit anoth...

Fri July 29, 1:26:27pm

noahivaldi: What does that leave, then? "Okay, Noah, I get how that wor...

Fri July 29, 1:27:08pm

noahivaldi: Maybe it'll take an industry crash to do it. Maybe. But then...

Fri July 29, 1:27:09pm

nikolascmx: how? heh ...

Fri July 29, 1:27:39pm

noahivaldi: No matter how you look at it, with what level of hope or lack th...

Fri July 29, 1:28:01pm

nikolascmx: are you talking about a gaming industry crash or specifically mo...

Fri July 29, 1:28:05pm

noahivaldi: Start having your wallet send the right message, and have your m...

Fri July 29, 1:28:16pm

noahivaldi: Could be either, Nikolas.
...

Fri July 29, 1:28:40pm

nikolascmx: i think the crash of the first could easily domino the mobile on...

Fri July 29, 1:28:57pm

nikolascmx: not sure about the mobile industry alone...

Fri July 29, 1:29:06pm

noahivaldi: Don't pay into them, mention in public places like this that...

Fri July 29, 1:29:26pm

nikolascmx: but how? that's (mis)fortune teller shit

Fri July 29, 1:29:58pm

kite0404: Well my friend dovi sent me a picture of his "lucky draw" and my sympathies for him

Fri July 29, 1:30:07pm

CB1981: there's the problem for you though, for the level of money i throw at ffrk (a few bucks here and there), i'm happy with the product i get. It's worth the couple bucks for the entertainment value to me

Fri July 29, 1:30:15pm

Victorys1996: @kite0404 Looks just like mines!

Fri July 29, 1:30:19pm

noahivaldi: Obviously, a gaming industry crash would have domino effects on all sorts of things. People don't realize how pertinent entertainment is to sane society. A nation made it through a 12-year drought because of gaming. We've made substantial progress toward disease cures because of gaming.

Fri July 29, 1:30:44pm

strugglehevy: @kite0404 that was my un-lucky draw aswell lol

Fri July 29, 1:30:55pm

noahivaldi: Then, CB, you're still just looking at the individual level.

Fri July 29, 1:30:58pm

Victorys1996: More members of our 0/11 club, nice

Fri July 29, 1:30:58pm

CB1981: i don't really need a revolution in the game industry for something i play when i'm taking a shit or on break at work.

Fri July 29, 1:31:21pm

CB1981: sorry, but i'm just not that much of an idealist.

Fri July 29, 1:31:33pm

nikolascmx: @noahivaldi censorship also comes into place, certain behaviours by consumers often aren't tolerated by money machine company

Fri July 29, 1:31:52pm

noahivaldi: Then I pity you, CB.

Fri July 29, 1:32:34pm

nikolascmx: DeNa is one of them, in the last 10 years it expanded like plague in the middle age lol

Fri July 29, 1:32:58pm

CB1981: don't need your pity, but thanks.

Fri July 29, 1:33:02pm

noahivaldi: Ugh, DeNA in particular is horrible . . .

Fri July 29, 1:34:13pm

noahivaldi: Revolutions, even the minor ones, don't happen overnight, and I never meant to suggest that one could. Well, okay, this is gaming; it actually is feasible for a revolution to occur much more quickly than in other venues . . .

Fri July 29, 1:34:32pm

noahivaldi: I just mean to say that nothing happens at all if we keep our heads down and keep following the herd.

Fri July 29, 1:35:16pm

CB1981: in my experience the only thing that ever matters is voting with your wallet, and again, the real issue to me is for the few dollars i spend on it, i am satisfied with the product for the most part

Fri July 29, 1:36:00pm

CB1981: the ONLY issue i've ever had with this game was that DeNAs customer support is garbage, and THAT, more than anything else, is why i haven't paid them a cent in a few months now

Fri July 29, 1:36:13pm

nikolascmx: indeed but let's just say that this warped society has solid roots, revolution will get harder to make day after day

nikolascmx: not impossible of course

CB1981: (and they're fully aware of that, since I said as much in an email to them)
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