Sentence Structure

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Learpabru
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Sentence Structure

Post by Learpabru » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:44 pm

More for humor than anything, I did not edit one bit of this. It's funny . . . and educational! -but mostly funny! Yaaaaay, funny! Ahem. If you are new and don't know who briniasona is, read around the site. You'll figure it out.


briniasona: I'm having issues with some english class terms. Like, Compound-Complex Sentances which contain two or more Independent Clauses and a Dependent Clause. night school teacher never told the class what Independent clauses and dependent clauses were.

godsoldier713: Indep. = could independently stand alone as a small, simple sentence.

godsoldier713: Dep. = phrase that only works if it has something to describe or add onto, mostly prepositional phrases.

godsoldier713: Leave it to fucking Canadia to refrain from teaching you such basic shit.

briniasona: just brantford, everyone here has rocks for brains.

godsoldier713: Obviously.

briniasona: and then the papr gives off a ton of sentances and asks the student to decide whether they are CC Sentences or not, and I being a person who has bad sentence structure to begin with am dumbfounded...not to say I'm stupid.

godsoldier713: It has at least two indep. clauses and at least one dep. clause.

godsoldier713: Looks for words like "to," "from," "for," "with," and others.

godsoldier713: If there's a clause in the middle of the sentence that's surrounded by commas, assuming that it's proper English, it's a prepositional phrase 9/10 times.

godsoldier713: Then, you just have to evaluate whether or not the stuff on both sides can stand alone.

briniasona: Example: She was going to the beach for the weekend until the tropical storm developed, so she decided to change her plans.

godsoldier713: Keep in mind the fact that you're in fucking Canadia, so English has to be re-taught to the nation after breakfast, eh.

godsoldier713: "She decided to change her plans." "She was going to the beach." These are indep. clauses, 'cause they can stand alone as sentences, as I just illustrated.

godsoldier713: "for the weekend" is a dep. clause. On its own, it's no sentence. With the direct object from the previous clause, "beach," it gains meaning.

briniasona: so in a CC, i look for two sentances that can stand on thier own and then one that makes no sense by itself.

godsoldier713: Pretty much, yeah.

godsoldier713: Example:

godsoldier713:
•"Hatred, which could destroy so much, never failed to destroy the man who hated, and this was an immutable law."

godsoldier713: "which could destroy so much" = prep. phrase that describes hatred.

godsoldier713: Hatred never failed to destroy the man. There's an indep. clause.

godsoldier713: "who hated" describes the man. Some people would lump this in with the previous indep. clause, and some people would call this a dep. clause that depends on the previous. I prefer to think the latter way because it's more logical.

godsoldier713: "and" = just a conjunction. It's used to bring two indep. clauses into one sentence, except when it's used to end a list.

godsoldier713: "This was an immutable law." Well, there ya' go. Therre's a second indep. clause.

briniasona: so in this one. The room that Carrie painted had been white, but she changed the colour to pale blue. (this is from a list of CC and non cc's that i have to figure out if it is one or not) "The room that Carrie painted had been white" i assume is an Independent "she changed the colour to pale blue" is also independent. would the "but she" be the dependent clause? making this a CC?

godsoldier713: "The room had been white." "She changed the colour." = indep. clauses.

godsoldier713: "that Carrie painted" and "to pale blue" = prep. (and thereby dep.) phrases.

briniasona: so anything, no matter how short that could make a sentance would be an IC and anything left over is a DC

briniasona: like if someone wrote. Stop, I told him as he tried to run away. stop could be the IC

godsoldier713: Length never has jack to do with shit. The shortest complete sentence in the language is "Go."

godsoldier713: Technically, the subject is the assumed "you," so you could say that it's no shorter than many other sentences, but you get the point.

godsoldier713: Yeah, "stop" works the same way.

briniasona: frig, I'm going to fail this assignment.

godsoldier713: Want a lesson in sentence structure? If you sit down and learn it all at once, it all pieces together.

briniasona: will it help in thei Complex Compound, Complex and Compound sentence stuff. gah, i'm just no good with english stuff, I can write and talk it, but when it comes to finding said this in stated that..nope.

godsoldier713: It'll help with everything.

briniasona: Sure, have at it.

godsoldier713: Every complete sentence has a subject and a predicate. If you have just one or the other, it's a fragment.

godsoldier713: The subject is obviously the unit that the sentence is about. "Bill" is not a sentence; it's just a subject.

godsoldier713: Descriptors of the subject are part of the subject. Example: Bill, the Canadian, is a subject.

godsoldier713: The predicate is basically everything that isn't the subject. It's the meat of the meal, the content of the sentence, what the fuck is going on.

godsoldier713: Since we often put the subject at the beginning of the sentence, it's painfully easy to get a hold of which is which. Putting the subject in the middle of a sentence is fine, though; it's no less a subject, and the result is no less a sentence.

godsoldier713: In that last paragraph, the first sentence's subject was "it." "It" is very often the subject, as is "you," since "you" is the assumed subject in many sentences.

godsoldier713: If I tell you, "Pay the fuck attention," I'm really saying, "You, pay the fuck attention."

briniasona: attention is the subject right

godsoldier713: No... You are...

godsoldier713: The sentence is about you. What are you doing (or proposed to do)? You're paying the fuck attention.

godsoldier713: Paying the fuck attention is the predicate because it's what you're doing. You're the one who's doing it, so you're the subject.

godsoldier713: Follow?

briniasona: yes, the english language is so fucked up.

godsoldier713: Since the subject is just the noun that the sentence is about, let's get to analyzing the predicate.

godsoldier713: There's one essential part: You need a verb. Verb phrases count.

godsoldier713: "Go," "stop," "run," "hurry," "pay," "need..." As long as it's some action, even if the action is just existing ("is," "are"), it's a verb, which means that you have some manner of predicate.

godsoldier713: "There's one essential part." -> "There" is the subect, while "is" is the verb.

godsoldier713: "Is running," "will go," and "is yet to pay" are verb phrases. "Is" is one of several "linking verbs" that are used with other, real verbs to make verb phrases.

godsoldier713: A single verb phrase is just like a single verb, but there's more to it than "pay;" you know that it is intended to happen, but has not yet.

godsoldier713: Follow, so far?

briniasona: I can read all this, follow it, but when it comes to applying it I get all stuck and screw up.

briniasona: yet I can spend hours photoshopping or drawing a picture.

godsoldier713: Stop panicking and just focus on learning it, first.

godsoldier713: A direct object is a noun that the verb is directing to. If you're reading a sentence and the noun answers "to whom" or "in what place" the verb occurs, it's a direct object.

briniasona: Verb = describing word, ive got that.

godsoldier713: No, verbs are action words...

briniasona: right, my bad

godsoldier713: -massages my temples-

godsoldier713: "There's one essential part." -> "There" = subj. "Is" = verb. "Part" = direct object, 'cause it answers WHAT there is.

briniasona: fycking learning disorder. I need to pass english to get into Graphic Design.

godsoldier713: This is really easy stuff if you just focus.

briniasona: Verb - action word. suject - pretty much a noun.

godsoldier713: The noun that the sentence is about, yes.

godsoldier713: The direct object is the object that the sentence directly refers to. It's the one that the subject is interacting with.

godsoldier713: "Run to the store." -> You are the subject. The verb is "run." "To the store" answers where you're running, so that prep. phrase is the direct object.

briniasona: so in "what kind of car" would car be the subject.

godsoldier713: If that's the whole sentence, no. There's another assumed "you" that you're talking to.

godsoldier713: Wait, wait...

godsoldier713: I need to slow down. I'm sick, so my thoughts aren't really flowing correctly.

briniasona: my brain is all fucky when it comes to acedemic stuff like math and english.

godsoldier713: Well, "what kind of car" is a fragment. There's no verb, so there's no predicate.

briniasona: "what kind of car, do you want to buy?" was the full sentance in the "is it, or is it not a CC" section..

godsoldier713: There should be no comma in the middle of that sentence... Is it on the paper like that?

briniasona: yes, it's in a section asking me if its a CC or if it isnt.

godsoldier713: ._.

briniasona: no there was no comma,

briniasona: eraser bit.

godsoldier713: Oh, good.

godsoldier713: Good, good. You had me worried, there. I knew that fucking Canadia was shit, but that was just disgusting.

godsoldier713: "You" are again the subject.

godsoldier713: "Want to buy" is your verb phrase.

godsoldier713: Er, no. Damnit. I really need to slow down.

godsoldier713: "Do want" is your verb phrase, actually.

godsoldier713: "To buy" is a prep. phrase, specifically an adverb phrase, 'cause it describes "do want."

godsoldier713: "What kind" is the direct object, 'cause that's what you're wanting.

godsoldier713: "Of car" is a prep. phrase, specifically an adjective phrase, that describes the direct object.

briniasona: adjective is a describing word right?

briniasona: shiny, or black or fast

godsoldier713: It's a word that describes a noun, yes.

godsoldier713: An adverb is a describing word that isn't an adjective, basically. An adverb describes any of the following: a verb, an adjective, or even another adverb.

briniasona: like, "big" red trick

godsoldier713: No. "Big" describes the truck. The phrase would be, "big, red truck." Both "big" and "red" describe the truck.

godsoldier713: "Very big truck" is a simple example. "Very" is describing how "big" it is.

briniasona: all 4 of those elements must be there to make a comp[lete sentance?

godsoldier713: No. Adjectives and adverbs are optional.

briniasona: so a compound sentance is a full sentence with a partial sentence that goes with it?

godsoldier713: "That is so painfully obvious." -> "That" = subject, noun. "Is obvious" = verb. "So" = adverb, describing "painfully." "Painfully" = adverb, describing "obvious." "Obvious" = adjective (yes, in addition to being part of the verb phrase), describing "that."

godsoldier713: No.

godsoldier713: A compound sentence is two full, related sentences that are mashed together with either a conjunction ("and," "but," "or," "so," and some others) or a semicolon.

godsoldier713: Brb.

godsoldier713: Where was I?

godsoldier713: Ah, yes. Examples of compound sentences: He refused to play fairly, so I had to ban him. She's a sweet girl; I hope that we can get back together to play the game again.

briniasona: the cat chased the mouse which had eluded him for days. that is not a compound sentence right?

godsoldier713: Nope.

godsoldier713: "Which had eluded him for days" = a prep. phrase, an adj. phrase that describes the mouse. It should have a comma before it, like almost all prep. phrases.

briniasona: almost all of whats on my paper could be CMP sentances, because everything each of the two seperate topics in each seperate sentance could relate to one an other in some way or fashion.

godsoldier713: If there's "and," "but," "or," or "so" in the middle with a comma before it, it's a compound sentence.

godsoldier713: If there's a semicolon and it's used properly, it's a compound sentence.

briniasona: i need white out...

briniasona: lol

godsoldier713: Haha.

godsoldier713: There are simple sentences, complex sentences, compound-simple sentences, and compound-complex sentences.

briniasona: "simple sentences, complex sentences, compound-simple sentences, and compound-complex sentences" is what the assignments all about

godsoldier713: Yup.

briniasona: the simple sentence bit is easy.

godsoldier713: A simple sentence just has an indep. clause. It's the shit like, "See Spot run," "Move, asshole," or, "You're going where, now?"

godsoldier713: A complex one isn't really complex. It just has a dep. clause in it, usually a prep. phrase.

godsoldier713: A compound-simple, usually just called a compound, sentence is one with at least two indep. clauses.

godsoldier713: They can be united two- Er, well, three ways, actually.

godsoldier713: "And," "but," "so," "for," "nor," "or," "so," "yet," and I think another word or two can be used as conjunctions that unite indep. clauses, but you gotta' put that comma in there.

godsoldier713: Oh, duh. "Because."

godsoldier713: "I'm multi-talented because I can talk and annoy you at the same time!" <- That's one example of a compound sentence that does not need a comma. They're a lot more common with "because" than other conjunctions.

godsoldier713: A semicolon takes the place of a comma and a conjunction., simply said. "I'm multi-talented; I can talk and annoy you at the same time!"

godsoldier713: Oh, yeah. Gaugh, I hate how English rules keep changing. You can put what's called a conjunctive adverb, like "however," "furthermore," "eventually," "accordingly," "besides," and a bunch of others after a semicolon to describe the second indep. clause.

godsoldier713: It's rather stupid and ugly to do so, though. Why not just turn the semicolon into a period and have the conjunctive adverb act as an interjection that starts a new sentence like everyone else?

godsoldier713: Anyway, the third way to conjoin two indep. clauses is with a colon, but that only woks in certain cases, like if the first indep. clause was the introduction to a list of some kind.

godsoldier713: *works

godsoldier713: "She's afraid of everything, it seems: She's afraid of spiders, heights, clowns, any surprises, midgets, and even some foods!"

briniasona: colons are usually used before lists>?

briniasona: .?

godsoldier713: No, but they can be for lists that you impose in that format.

godsoldier713: Most of the time, you don't have to use commas for... Well, you pretty much don't have to use them at all, especially if you're a dunce.

godsoldier713: All that makes a sentence "complex," whether compound or simple, is a dep. clause.

godsoldier713: That sentence was a complex sentence. "Whether compound or simple" is a prep. phrase that describes "sentence."

godsoldier713: Oh, right. You use colons after the addressed title in a formal letter, like, "Dear Wal-Mart:"

godsoldier713: You can use it to introduce quotes and explanations, but it's mainly just used for an independent clause that introduces a series of stuff.

briniasona: *takes notes*

godsoldier713: You can look colons up, if you want. Let's put it this way, though: I generally don't have much use for them, and I do a lot of writing to explain shit to people.

briniasona: dep clause is a sunject but no verbs or the like. (i'm trying my best here)

godsoldier713: Not... even... close. A subject with no verb is just a fragment. You have a dependent clause when you have some part of a predicate that can't stand alone.

godsoldier713: "I am through with this." -> "With this" is a very short, prep. phrase. It says what you're "through" of. That makes it a direct object.

godsoldier713: Because "With this" is a clause and doesn't make a sentence on its own (Think about it. If "this" is the subject, what is it doing? "With?" "With" isn't an action.), it's a dep. clause.

briniasona: and the I am through is an Ind Clause right

godsoldier713: Yeah.

briniasona: because that is a sentance on it's own

godsoldier713: Subject = "I," and predicate = "am through." The predicate is just one verb phrase, but that's enough; descriptors don't make a sentence.

briniasona: fuck my brains in a million places at once right now

godsoldier713: I don't see how. It amazes me that it's even in one place, at times. ._.

godsoldier713: Seriously, though, what don't you get?

briniasona: ifhskjbgjyhgijrgt, too much going on in my head to think straight

godsoldier713: Your two brain cells are talking to each other again, aren't they?

briniasona: stop implying that I'm stupid.

godsoldier713: I'm not implying anything. I'm outright saying it.

briniasona: because i don't know english and match that makes me stupid

godsoldier713: Match? xD

briniasona: math

godsoldier713: Woooooow...

briniasona: how did this turn from help, to targetting me.

godsoldier713: It didn't. It was always about your knowledge.

godsoldier713: Do you want to stop panicking like a fool and learn? :3

briniasona: I know what a simple sentance is and a compound sentance is. a complex sentence contains a ind clause and a dependent clause. I can undersstand hos it works, I just can't look at a sentance written down and see it. something in my brain doesnt allow me to connect shit together.

godsoldier713: No. A complex sentence contains a dep. clause.

godsoldier713: Ah, you said that. I misread it. My bad.

godsoldier713: It helps to know your prepositions.

briniasona: use a word aside from preposition.

godsoldier713: Prepositions are prepositions. ._.

briniasona: a words before pronoun to indicate something

briniasona: or noun

godsoldier713: Uh... No...

briniasona: i might have short term memory problems

godsoldier713: You might have dark matter (the all-devouring kind) where you should have grey matter.

briniasona: so I'm brain dead.

godsoldier713: Evidently.

godsoldier713: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_prepositions

godsoldier713: Here.

godsoldier713: You don't have to memorize all or even most of them. Just read through and try to get a feel for it.

godsoldier713: Some of them are only sometimes prep.s. Others are usually prep.s, while others still are evenly situational, some are very rarely prep.s, and there are at least a few that are always prep.s.

briniasona: now i went and got myself lost. a Dependent Clause would not contain a preposition?

godsoldier713: A preposition is a dependent clause.

godsoldier713: Er, no. A prepositional phrase, or prep. clause, is a dep. clause.

godsoldier713: For the record, "clause" and "phrase" are totally interchangeable, so don't get worried over that.

briniasona: i think i ned a break, something occured I have randomly forgotten a bunch of shit. like my brain was like, "too much info, lets just dump shit to free up the clogged line"

godsoldier713: A prep. is a word that indicates a prep. phrase. A prep. phrase is a phrase that describes or elaborates on another pat of the sent- Jeez. Your brain is really good at dumping shit. It shoudl compete with rednecks.

godsoldier713: *should

briniasona: some sort of learning/behaviour disorder.

godsoldier713: 'Scuses, 'scuses.

briniasona: how the shit did I graduate high school...

godsoldier713: You live in fucking Canadia, remember?

briniasona: lets noit make fun of other peoples countries. so a preposition as you stated is a dependent clause. and if a dependent clause is a sentence that stands on it's own.... i dont know where i was going with that thought

godsoldier713: You weren't, 'cause a dependent clause can't stand alone. It's dependent on a full sentence to back it up. ._.

briniasona: fuck right

briniasona: i was thinking IND clause

briniasona: yeahhhh

briniasona: brb

godsoldier713: 'Kay.

briniasona: sorry

godsoldier713: Hm?

briniasona: for not being very good at any of this

godsoldier713: -shrugs-

briniasona: your used to it eh?

godsoldier713: *You're

godsoldier713: ^ For the answer to your question, look up.

briniasona: godsoldier713: -shrugs- <this

godsoldier713: -facepalms- Never mind.

briniasona: *doesnt say anything*

godsoldier713: By the way, an indirect object is basically any noun that isn't either the subject or a direct object. They're usually found in prep. phrases.

briniasona: example?

godsoldier713: ""I believe entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

godsoldier713: Oops. Double quotation marks.

briniasona: and can become art is the DEp

briniasona: right?

godsoldier713: Subject = I.

godsoldier713: Verb = believe. Direct object = entertainment.

godsoldier713: "art" is the indirect object of that indep. clause.

godsoldier713: Next, the subject switches to "entertainment."

godsoldier713: The verb phrase is "can become."

godsoldier713: "Art" becomes the direct object, 'cause the object that it's about is now the subject.

godsoldier713: Finally, the subject changes to "you," the verb phrase to (if) "set out," "art" is again the direct object, and "you" is the indirect object.

godsoldier713: I'm not too sure about that last one. I learned about it right before they changed the rule somehow, and I never heard what they changed it to.

briniasona: "James refused because he had other plans" thats a complex sentence right. because James refused is the depdentant, and he had other plans is the independent.

godsoldier713: No... "Because" is a conjunction, not a preposition.

godsoldier713: "He had other plans." "James refused."

briniasona: so compound

godsoldier713: Obviously, it's compound, but simple.

briniasona: hmmmmm.

briniasona: a complex sentance is like a compound but doesnt have the connecting words like but, because or and near the comma. or something like that. i think

godsoldier713: A complex sentence has a dependent clause somewhere in it...

briniasona: CMP = IND+IND with and, but, because or another conjunction| CPX = IND+DEP...

godsoldier713: Dude, just think about it.

godsoldier713: What's a compound?

godsoldier713: It's a mash-up, a combination, a unition, a fusion.

godsoldier713: A compound sentence is a conbination of two full sentences (indep. clauses) into one sentence.

godsoldier713: A complex sentence is one that's complicated by unnecessary, but helpful clauses (dep.).

briniasona: and a CC is a fucked up mashup of eveything resulting in utter confusion

godsoldier713: Naw. That's your mind.

briniasona: more than likely yes

godsoldier713: http://www.explosm.net/comics/2083/

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Post by ElsaSmith » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:20 am

The aspect of the sentence structure is the one we must pay attention to. Unlike other foreign languages, a detailed guide to word order in English, as well as the rules of sentence structure are clearly presented at http://getessayeditor.com/blog/what-you-should-know-about-sentence-structure-in-english. What are your thoughts?

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K
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Post by K » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:12 am

Sorry for the delay. My schedule has been flooded severely, lately. I was planning to restyle Seinvocc months ago, but everything that I want to do keeps getting put onto the back burner . . .

Are you affiliated with that website? If so, boy, are you in for a surprise.

My thoughts on that particular article:
Sorry, but that's ineffective. The points are all true, as are the definitions, so we have the important stuff down, but there are too many other flaws that are staring me in the face.
  • The punctuation is atrocious. Commas are missing everywhere and thrown into plenty of places that they shouldn't be. Semicolons are misused.
  • Words are outright missing (e.g. "Therefore simple sentence doesn’t necessarily . . ." -> "Therefore, a simple sentence doesn't necessarily . . .") or misspelled (I believe that you bake blueberry muffins. You don't usually back them.), sometimes segregated into two words (e.g. "Her new red dress could be seen from a far." -> "Her new, red dress could be seen from afar."), which is honestly pretty sad on an article that is supposed to be teaching English principles.
  • The second paragraph is full of redundancies. You could cut out the entire second half of it, starting with the analogy to mechanic's tools, and the point would have been conveyed just as well. Now, I don't mind the fact that the paragraph went on to include the analogy, as that is a fine teaching tool, but it felt drawn-out, and that was emboldened by the apparent fact that the author is a victim of the modern mantra that insists that every paragraph must be structured in the same manner as the prototypical essay. Simply put, the conclusion sentence was unnecessary and redundant.
  • In fact, half the paragraphs are redundant. The intro gets a pass because that's how we're taught to write intros, but the others have no excuse.
  • Referring to conjunctions as "linking words" colloquially is fine if everyone is on the same page of English comprehension. When teaching from the ground up, one must use proper terms.
  • "However" is not a conjunction, damn it. It's an interjection. If you use "however" to link two independent clauses, you're doing it wrong; put a period before "however," capitalize it, and be done with it.
  • Did . . . Did they just start a sentence with "and," a conjunction, just a few paragraphs after explaining compound sentences?! Honestly, is this real?!
  • Let's play "Find the subject-verb agreement errors!" I suppose that I should give them credit for getting most of that right . . . Fun fact: Most of these errors come with "such sentence," which should be "such sentences" or "such a sentence." The author couldn't make up his/her mind on singularity or plurality, eh?

    Bloody Hell! That site's participants should be ashamed of scamming kids out of their lunch money to fuck up their papers for them. If a friend were to write that poorly, I'd gently offer proofreading, but since that article that is written to sell their services, all that they deserve is shame . . .
    I took a glance at their home page, too. They have poor grammar everywhere! That is pathetic!
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