Jump Mechanics

[Lamonte]

3. Fair enough.
5 and 6. -_- look dude. You wanted my opinions, and you've got them. Don't whine about it now. You need to clarify everything the same way (and for the same reason) Bill had to. Now I'm not saying you were going to act like Bill, but just like Bill tried to leave himself "expierimental" wiggle room, and you didn't let him, I won't let you. As for the jump thing, I alread said speed is what would dictate acrobatic agility, and str would dictate acrobatic scope. That makes sense. It's just the logical way things should work. And don't accuse me of bias. I said spd is an EQUAL factor in jump to spd. You're the one who's saying str doesn't count towards jump at all, and that IS biased. I mean what, does leg str suddenly only count for kicking in houcum now.

You KNOW I have good points, and furthermore, you ASKED for them. If you don't like it I'm sorry, but then don't ask me to come look at your chars and approve them. They have flaws too, and I WILL unbiasedly point out every one of them.

[K]

I'm not whining. I'm trying to logically discuss these. Chill out.
The "experimental" vibe is just that Noah isn't sure about it. In actuality, Transummon works the same way under all circumstances, except that, as Noah will soon discover, A) it doesn't work with Eidolons (ie-DOE-lons, the III-style ones) at all, B) it won't work with Eidolons (AY-doe-lons) until Lv3, C) it won't work with Aeons until Lv4, and D) it won't work with Espers until Lv6 (though some training will probably bump that down to Lv5). I'm not trying to come up with a new particle in ten posts that compensates for my primary deficiency; it's just an ability that the character is new to. That's all.
How is it not biased to STR? If a character can't be mobile without being a phy char, that's limited and very unfair to would-be mobile mages. If STR counts for enhanced mobility in addition to enhanced phy attacks, that's a double yield. If you jump and kick me, that uses your SPD, then your STR and SPD ('cause SPD goes for movement and attack speed, which can be segregated). If you jump and cast a spell, though, you shouldn't need to enhance your STR and thereby gimp your other stats that you want more. That would be a clear bias for phy chars.
A property of physics in Houcm states that dimensional ripples occur when a purpose for the flexing of a muscle is decided, and these dimension ripples cause that flex to be more or less effective by given purposes. Again, simply stated, your leg muscles can apply to running and jumping agility differently than kicking strength, and the same goes for the arms and other appendages. This property is in play so that we don't have to play this STR>SPD game and fuck with stat calculations so much; SPD is simply SPD, and STR is simply STR. I have enough trouble getting people to allocate their stats and parameters fairly; why do you want me to complicate things by giving STR an enhanced yield and counting SPD for so very little?

Yes, you have good points, and I did ask for them. I'm not bashing you down, man; chill. I'm glad that you're unbiasedly evaluating my chars. Just don't feel that you have to go out of your way to gimp them to show that you're unbiased, and don't expect me to just go edit whatever you have a problem with. I'm trying to discuss these points with you so that we can come to an agreement. This is not a dicking match. Just take a breath and reason things out.

[Lamonte]

The "experimental" vibe is just that Noah isn't sure about it. In actuality, Transummon works the same way under all circumstances, except that, as Noah will soon discover, A) it doesn't work with Eidolons (ie-DOE-lons, the III-style ones) at all, B) it won't work with Eidolons (AY-doe-lons) until Lv3, C) it won't work with Aeons until Lv4, and D) it won't work with Espers until Lv6 (though some training will probably bump that down to Lv5).

Then just copy paste that in inside parenthesis and post it in there OOC. I'm not saying you would try that, but the potential is still there, and you must have the same exacting clarity you expect from others. Point, set, match. You're smart enough to find a way to put exactly what I quoted in there, so just do it man.

Spd doesn't count for little at all. Spd still dictates other shit such as attack speed (which following this flawed logic you have SHOULD be based solely on defense). I'm just saying all this "one stat allocation" sounds like bullshit to me. It honestly reminds me of Esc man...
"Spd is the only factor in jumping" "Evade is the only factor in defense"
You demonized thier system for being illogical, but you are doing the EXACT same thing.
If this is not a dicking match don't ASSUME I'm trying to gimp your characters. I'm not trying to show I'm unbiased. I'm just attacking cracks where you left them, where you would and have attacked my cracks in the past.

[K]

Okay, I can put that up in the first post. Not usually necessary, but okay.

SPD counts for running and attack speed, but not jumping, 'cause fuck logic. So, if I have guns or spells that provide their own attack speeds to negate this, and I don't run around, but teleport or, hey, since I have high STR, just jump around like crazy . . . that makes SPD account for nothing at all.
This is nothing like Esc. If you're a fast-ass mother-fucker, it follows that you're agile in more respects than just pressing your feet to the ground. On Esc, there is no defense, resistance, health, or any energy pool that isn't just "your energy." You die if you get hit, so everyone god-modes to never get hit. That's not even remotely the same. Mine IS logical.
Just let mobile chars be mobile, man. If I have to make an announcement to let everyone with a speedy char (i.e. everyone except you) know that they've now been gimped just because you want STR and SPD to always have to go together, the memberbase is going to drop like a rock. For crying out loud, it's just a little jump ability. If Noah can jump three feet laterally further than you want him to, is that really going to matter? Will there ever be any practical instance in which this little tidbit about how you want to think of jumping is going to make any difference? Especially once he's teleporting around and such, I'm inclined to say not.
If YOU want to add an ability to YOUR chars that synchronizes their dimensional ripples so that their STR plays a part in their jumping, go ahead. For the site defaults, though, STR is attack power, and SPD is mobility.

I'm not assuming anything; I wasn't telling you that ex post facto. I was just saying that you should stop getting so frustrated, keep yourself (i.e. a gentle forewarning) from getting wrapped up in silly stuff like that, and just converse about these things.

[Lamonte]

Damn it man, I've said every time it counts for jumping too! I'm saying it isn't the ONLY factor! You know what, I'm not going to rage quit, but you need to fucking work with me man. Because you just gave me the equivalent of a "just deal with it".
And what member base Caleb..? No one else is around, and I'm begining to see why.

[Lamonte]

Just saying man, if you can't work with me on something like jump mechanics, I'm not going to be able to recommend this site to people...

[K]

Dude, I don't know what you want. You want me to compromise the site's fairness because you don't want the dimension to have any different physics than our own. People want to be mobile without being ninja. We want to be able to actually customize our chars. For crying out loud, man, video games segregate mobility and attack power. Am I so wrong for not wanting to uproot the entire site, have everyone recalculate things on a tilted scale, and force anyone who wants high mobility to be a phy char . . . just because you don't want to work with different physics that allow us high customization? Come on, man. This isn't even just about Noah. What you're suggesting is fucking over Jules, Tori, Laola, Leilani, Learpabru, Bianca, Ceo, Komo, Adler, plenty of other existing chars, and anyone else who wants a mobile mage. Oh, fuck; I just thought of recalculating Blackjack3 with this. Fuck that. Anyway, your proposal is to fuck over a bunch of people just because of the way that you think of jumping.
We do have other members; we're just not flooded by millions of trolls every day whose whole idea of RPing is just fucking logic. Are you going to compare the memberbase to RPGuilds? You already admitted that the only reason why they have so many members is because they don't regulate anything, so it's damned-near impossible to have any intellectual/fair RPs.

Dude, look: I am trying to work with you. Who is the one who said that your chars (and anyone else who wants those jump mechanics) are free to make an ability to augment them to your desires? I am. I threw you a bone. You are the one who's coming in and proposing something that will fuck over every stat calculation that has been done and every stat calculation that will be done, and you are forceful about it. You're threatening to cut off the advertising just because some characters employ a mechanic that you don't get along with (which is like saying that you'll degrade the site just because we have chakra). You're insulting me and acting like I'm the one who doesn't work with people on anything, but you're the one who is so insistent that these jump mechanics must conform to your way of thinking about them. You even opened the argument by admitting that it was just your way of thinking of jump mechanics. How you want to calculate jumps is of small matter. How the entire site thereby calculates their stats and parameters and limits themselves to pre-determined archetypes is a large matter. I CAN'T compromise it, man. I would be fucking over everyone else for your sake. Please, stop putting me between a rock and a hard place.

[Lamonte]

Fine. You win. I am going to try to approve chars man. It's just not worth it... I'm sorry, but I am right on this one (believe it or not I'm a very good admin), and people that I'm recomended mainly in Houcum because I was supposedly to be helping in admin matters. Like game mechanics. But you just are not going to accept the fact that my way is more logical and a little better than your's. SO I'll run my RPs, and leave Houcum to you.

[K]

Houcm, Houcm. It's spelled right in front of your face. -_-
No, I'm not going to bend over, kiss your ass, and say that any mechanical ways that you have are innately better than everyone else's. You are literally blaming me because I'm not raping my entire site for the sake of you and some of your followers. Do what you want, man. Just count me out of any fantasy RPs of yours, 'cause I like to have mechanics that allow customization, not set-in-stone archetypes because you feel that you absolutely HAVE to be in charge of reality.

[Lamonte]

Pity. I really would have liked to help man, but you are acting the ass. I'm sorry but the fact of the matter is juping is physical. That's just a logical fact. You use your legs to do it, thus it is physical, and I'm sorry that doesn't fit in your idea of Noah, but it's a FACT. And honestly for someone who always says that they are a good role player (who has a magical character... You yourself said Noah has other ways of moving besides jumping) you are not being very creative at all... I mean for fucks sake what's to stop Noah from short range directional teleporting as far as he would jump?

As for that other thing, be careful man... I'm trying really hard not to rage quit on you again because of this, but I am still active on other sites man. If you threaten my RPs than you're no better than RPGuild, and I will go elsewhere.

[K]

Yeah, and running is physical, too. That's why, in most games, mages are always slow and phy chars are always fast. Here on Sein, we can have dimensional properties that logically play with physics so that people can have fast mages, slow warriors, and whatever else they want.
The teleporting bit was exactly my point. Once he can teleport, crossing gaps is not a big issue. A little fucking mobility is not going to kill you, man. -_-

I'm not threatening your RPs. I never once said that I wouldn't host them. Speaking of being careful, though, you're the one who's coming onto my site, suggesting that everyone to conform to your paradigm of physics, blaming me for not throwing out everyone else's wishes and conforming to what you want, ragequitting the major part of the site, and hypocritically calling me the one who isn't working with people. For fuck's sake, man, get over yourself.

[Lamonte]

Whatever dude. You need to consider other people's point of view. Sometimes they are better than your's. This is one of those times. Don't you ever wonder why, so many people just stop posting and then make excuses why. This is why. You're SO obsesed with having things run your way that you can't even go HALFWAY on jump mechanics with me dude.... Not even halfway. And why? Because that would make one aspect of one of your characters only half what you wanted it to be...
That makes it so its not fun for other people man.

[K]

You're right because you say that you're right. Got it. Bend over and kiss your ass. I already said that it's not even about Noah; you're fucking with all magical characters. If everyone conforms to the physics of the real world, physical characters have high PS, high STR, high DEF, high SPD, high HE, and high CH, 'cause all of those are linked to a healthy body. They are only weak in RES, MAG that they don't use, and I guess MS in a shitty effort to tilt things to be more fair. Therefore, they need their abilities to be gimped terribly, and mages need awesomely overpowered abils to attempt to compensate for how much they suck. Hence, no character is customizable, and everyone follows the same, old archetypes. That's not cool, man. That's not a game. That is sure as fuck not superior to what is already established.
Oh, and yes, others can vouch that what you're trying to impose is wrong. What YOU want is not fun for other people.
What "halfway"? I let your chars and anyone else who is stuck in this mindset to go that FULL way, if they so please. I'm just not fucking over everyone's customization for the sake of your paradigm.
By the way, don't even think about blaming me because people are lazy assholes. People make excuses to ditch the site because they're lazy and worthless, not because I'm obsessive about having things my way. YOU are the one who is obsessing over things going YOUR way. Stop making these hypocritical accusations. I'm fucking tired of it.

[Lamonte]

Then stop being a hyperbolic little man bitch dude...
Wow... Non physical characters have to jump a few more times than physical ones... Wah! Everyone is fucked! Wah! All magic characters are shit now! Boo hoo hoo...

I mean really. What I am saying is beter because A) it makes sense and B) because it would only hurt people who are too stupid to realize that if I jump 4 meters and they jump 2 meters, and they jump alittle faster than me because they have higher spd ( because I am so biased against the speed stat says master of hyperbole) than... Oh my god... If I jump twice to his one jump I'll cover the same distance... IN THE SAME TIME! A fuckin' miricle!

I mean seriously... People who can't work this out usualy can't spell thier names...

SO why aren't you getting it? What's your excuse?

[K]

If you parade your idea around like it's right just because it's yours, that is not okay. I don't know what you're not getting. If you force real life physics into a fantasy world, you get rid of customization. You make everyone have to recalculate because mages are gonna' get fucked.

For one, your argument is ritarded. If there's a 10-meter gap that my char should be able to jump over because my char was designed to be mobile, but he's not allowed to because he's not strong, that's annoying. If your char isn't designed for mobility, but is strong enough, he can cross that gap. That's not fair. I designed mine for mobility, you didn't, and you get to be more mobile than mine because the SPD stat means shit and STR means everything.

Then, you run the slippery slope that I've been talking about. If STR is a key element of jumping, why not force real life physics into everything? If you want high DEF, you build up your muscles, so you get high STR. If you want high SPD, you build up your muscles, so you get STR and DEF. If you want physical stamina, you train your body and build muscles, so you get STR, DEF, and SPD. If you want to be healthier, you burn fat and thereby build muscles. All that you have to say is that you believe in "strong body, strong mind," and you're suddenly high on mental stamina. Again, this leads to those extreme archetypes of phy chars getting all the good stuff and mages getting overpowered abilities to compensate for their suckiness.
It's not a hyperbole, Max. It's a slippery slope that you face when you try to force real world physics into a fantasy world.