Angel/Demon/Whatever Characters

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Angel/Demon/Whatever Characters

Post by K » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:25 am

Sometimes, it feels like I'm the only user who doesn't want to put angel/demon/whatever stuff into my characters. Maybe name some stuff like that, such as the "Angel Whisper" Blue Magic spell, but not actual stuff about angels, demons, and all.

Now, there's no rule against it or anything; unless it's really offensive, you're not going to get in trouble for making your character the son of a fallen angel and a human who was possessed by a demon or whatever.

However, I'd like you to know that you, the average joe, don't know squat about angels, demons, or even spirits. You could ask (You know; like mature people do when they realize that they're not omniscient?), and I could tell you what little I know, but it still doesn't actually make sense for you to summon angels or the like. See, you're not God, not Satan, yada yada. You can't RP as them for obvious reasons. To have any sort of manipulation of such beings would be blasphemous, which is not only rude to those of us who know better, but makes no sense.

Think about it. You come up with some story by which your character was some great angel that decided to go awry and started doing all kinds of crap. Meanwhile, I read your very unoriginal story and know that it doesn't even pretend to be logical to those of us who know anything about the subject(s). So, even though you probably put some good work into it, it's just a disappointing story, not worth reading, for me. No, it's not just me, but, even if it was, it's still rather rude.

Of course, there's always the question of how to defeat or affect a "real" angel, demon, InsAngel, familiar, or whatever being your character supposedly is, despite your quite likely lack of knowledge thereof. Well, everyone keeps running into the question and wondering how they're supposed to logically role-play things out. It's not because we're all stupid; it's because your character doesn't make sense. It's just a pain to role-play with an angelic, demonic, yada yada character. Sure, it's been done just fine before, but that doesn't mean that everyone's going to agree that your theories make sense, especially when you're just pulling them out of your hat of social influence.

Like I said, there's no rule about it; if you insist on making a character that is supposed to be a [insert character race here] and don't follow the ideas that I'm about to present, fine; we're not going to hold it against you, and we'll just try to be logical about stuff.

So, let's say that you're reading this and get what I'm saying. Fantastic. So, you have this character that you want to use, but it's one with some sort of celestial theme or something. Basically, you want an angel character or the like, but you don't want it to be illogical and rude to other RPers. Well, lucky you: You have some options.
  1. A personal favorite is to take the word that you were going to use, such as "angel" or "demon" (or sometimes just another word altogether, such as any other themes that you may have been going for, the name, or whatever), and run it through a translator at least once or twice (partially depending on which translator you're using) and/or jumble the letters up. I recently posted an Al Bhed translator, right? Go try it. Here are a couple of results:
    angel = yhkam ("ae-ha-kukahm")
    demon = tasuh ("teah-seeoo-ha")
    yhkam = orgys ("oh-ra-geae-see")
    tasuh = dycir ("deae-kuee-ra")

    Not a bad start, if I do say so myself. Of course, you can mess with pronunciations all that you want; it's your own name for your own race! (Yes, you are free to use these examples; that's what they're here for. ^^)

    You could translate a selected word into more than one language, mash the words together, jumble the letters up, and see what you come up with!
    demon + akuma (Japanese) ~ Dekuma? I think that that one's already taken . . . Hrm . . .

    For even more possibilities, remember that "demon" can also be spelled "daemon," depending largely on dialects and referenced sources.
  2. Just state that the race to which your character, ally, or whatever belongs is called "Angel," called "Demon," or whatever, but isn't actual angels, demons, et cetera. For instance, those of you who came from Esc know that one person's character developed an aspect by the name of "Demon Summoning." The creatures that were called "Demons" were not actual demons, although many resembled those of folklore and such. They dwelt in and were summoned from a place that was simply known as the "Other Place." It was specifically clarified that the "Other Place" is not Hell, Hades, or whatever else one may have in mind, but simply an alternate realm in which these creatures, which happen to be called "Demons," reside. That same person had another character that summoned "angels" who used many angelic abilities, resembled the most common artist's rendition of angels, et cetera, but were not actually angels; again, they were simply called by that title, but they were alternate beings altogether. Therefore, that person had successfully used the terms of "demons" and "angels" without referring to the respective topics as though they logically were demons and angels.
Those are just a couple options (although the first item is certainly one that can be used hundreds of times over) that one can decide on in order to have the stuff that you want without being offensive. It's all optional, but it is a nice courtesy.

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Post by the General » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:08 pm

One name Gerold.

Can he Exist when I make him later on?
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Post by K » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:53 pm

No, no, no, no, and no. You know where people stand on that. No. No. Flaming no. No. To make him would be all kinds of rude, especially since he'd be made in order to just kill off high-Level characters. No-no-no, NO. Some of us have a lot of skill and thereby earn Levels; so long as we're not abusing the power, there's no reason to get rid of us. No.

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Post by the General » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:22 pm

He wouldent be on sein for killing off people. He was put on escellsia for one reason. The death of rozalyn. Gerold would be here to playgames and toy with people as he usually does.
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Post by K » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:36 pm

Yeah . . . Still no. That's exactly what would be so offensive about him.
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Post by K » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:57 pm

(Point of clarification to those whom weren't here for this: This was originally posted as a response to a post by Courtney, whom did not stick around and was deleted.)

Okay, I didn't read all the backstory and such, but yeah, that was a badass character. People could take that as an example, because that is a great way to make a new race (that resembles the common depiction of demons, so would-be demon-users could still have the basic factors that they want) for one's character. Granted, I wouldn't ask them all to give nearly that kind of effort and detail, but it's a great example to the general idea. Thanks for the link.

It's all right; it isn't easy to explain, anyway. I'll start with an analogy.
Think about this: Let's say that someone was going to RP as a canon character in a non-canon universe. For one, it's not original; it's cheap to just spam others' ideas without adding any of your own flair. Secondly, you know that the user, no matter how much of a hardcore fan (s)he may be, won't have the personality and thoughts of the canon character, nor will (s)he have an accurate plan of the character's capabilities. When Axel from the KH series (one of the most abused characters in RPs) would throw a chakram one way and a fireball another way, the user stands there and says, "W-wut do i do!!!?!??!??!??!quetionmarkexclamationpoint!!?!??!??!!!1111?!!1!?!1oneoneone!!!?1?1" It's shameful, no? Aside from abusing an idea that's already more than a cliché, the user's depiction of the canon character (or angels/demons/et cetera) is WAY off-base to what it should be. The user is just a gross impostor. It's even worse to know that we have very limited knowledge of angels, but what little that we do know is things such as a) they can't be harmed by mortals, being messengers of God, b) there's a huge, but limited number of them; new angels aren't being born, c) they have no free will, and d) they always have whatever abilities they need to get the job done, although the job isn't necessarily the human perception of "job done = win battle." The job may not be to let you win the battle, but let you live after you lose. It's a bunch of stuff that's beyond our little minds, aside from what little knowledge we do have leading to the fact that they are unfair to be considered as RP characters.

Now, think about this: We don't know what angels and demons look like. They have changing appearances, and we don't even know if any forms can be considered as defaults. Every picture out there is just an artist's depiction of angels and demons, so using one such picture and calling that the true form of your personal angel is stupid, frankly.

Now, consider the definitions of things. A demon, by definition, is a fallen angel. When Satan defied God, a bunch of angels sided with him, and a bunch of them stuck with God. God pwned Satan, then took the free wills of all the angels away. Those who were stuck with Satan are called demons; those are the former angels that pervert everything. God's loyal messengers are still called angels. Because they have no free will, it's impossible for one to make a mistake and become a fallen angel; they're either already fallen (demon) or not (angel), just as it is impossible for a demon to do anything but Satan's will, which is pure evil (i.e. no growing a heart and deciding to save the girl). There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. A human can't reproduce the ways of something without free will as we don't have complete comprehension of the guiding wills behind them. If people wanna' tell me that they understand God or Satan inside-out and sideways, I'll just laugh in their faces. If we RP as an angel and make a mistake, as we inevitably must, it doesn't make sense. If we RP as a demon and decide to show some mercy, it doesn't make sense.
Then, we get into definition discrepancies. Some angel-RPer will come along and say, 'Angels always beat demons, so the fact that he's Lv3 and I'm Lv2 doesn't mean jack!' or vice versa. The General's Purification Ice would- What? Would it do nothing to angels, less to angels, more to demons, one-shot demons, or what's the deal? Don't answer that, Bill; it's rhetoric exemplification. While we could quash each individual instance and say, "Well, whether you can make sense of it or not, you have to play fairly," I'd much rather just have things make sense and be fair for everyone.

Finally, go read Gerold's bio back on Esc. It demonstrates these points well.

Was that helpful, love?
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Post by the General » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:23 pm

Lol, there is much to edit with Gerold. and Lol to telling me not to answer a questions you should know the answer to :P
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Post by K » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:34 pm

-sigh- That's why I said that they were for rhetorical exemplification, Bill . . . Thank you for continuing to spam . . . -.-

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Post by the General » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:38 pm

Sorry, But i totally agree with the part about saying people have thier own description as to what angels and demons are from different veiws.

yes they are gods messengers, but sure, in Angel blade they bang the shit out of people, and in too human they take dead bodies to heaven.
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Post by Terah » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:05 pm

After readong this and comparing these points with the original Aisu I've seen that I've done nothing wrong. Unless of course K is offended by Japanese folklore. It even says at the top "Now, there's no rule against it or anything" followed by the rest. I don't beilive this has offended you K, unless of course the moment you see ice girls or shiva or the like you don't like that. Which I don't know. But hey.
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Post by K » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:46 pm

Bill, you're not convincing anyone. Everyone knows what you just pulled. What you changed it to is a lot different than what you had. Grow up and stop trying to make me look bad to people who know better.
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Post by Terah » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:02 pm

Yes I said Aisu was a Yokai, Yes I said she was a Yuki-Onna which is a japanese folklore Demon, yes I tried to argue why i should be allowed to call her a Demon. Yes, I told you off on Yahoo.

But I never once offended anyone religion. I would never do that.
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Post by K » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:28 pm

This isn't up to debate, Bill. I ignored you on Y!M because you're just cramming your shit down everyone's throats. You were offensive to potential storylines, aside from offending beliefs, and you know it. I normally encourage discussion and logical arguments, but since you are neither posing logical arguments, nor discussing things respectfully, but in stead just playing a denial game and trying to slander me, I'll tell you this once: Sit down and shut up.
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Post by K » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:29 am

Speaking of realism, two units of any different genus can't mate. A lion and a tiger can't mate. A horse and a donkey can mate because they're close enough genetically, like a vierra and a bangaa (both human). Demons don't have genes. Demons don't breed at all. Demons were made once. Demons were first mentioned by God, as they are the angels that decided to work under Satan, hence the angels that God cast out and bound to Satan's will, renaming them in the process. All afterward mentions of demons that deviate from the definition given are born out of a) ignorance and/or b) denial of the true definition and belief in what one wishes to believe. Even those who believe in demons other than by the definition that God gives can't really deny that (though some try). Hence, we have a few options: 1) Go by the original definition and compel anyone who mentions demons to conform in the context of the site. 2) Be like all other sites and let "demons" be a totally meaningless word, hence allowing it to be used for absolutely EVERYTHING in explanations. Therefore, those who genuinely think their shit through have the disadvantage of having no benefit beyond the others, while the lazy people get to just say, "It was given to me by a demon," "It's caused by my demon possession/heritage," et cetera, using no originality or significant thought whatsoever. 3) Just ask for a blanket omission of demon-related junk due to lack of knowledge and thereby lack of consensus and work things through with some genuine thought. Guess which one I'm aiming for.
Relatedly, "yuki-onna" or "yokai" simply mean "ice demon." They're not specific across the board; they only have specific properties when in the context of, say, a video game or comic that sets specs for the kind of yukai that is used in that literary work. It's about as original and specified as "human" is in Houcm terminology or "some kind of fire entity." Like I said, there isn't consensus on what the term, "demon," is allocated to, so there's nothing definite on that end. The only specification is that there's an ice-elemental affinity. This is nothing beyond a dependency on a "demon this, demon that" explanation for someone who's too lazy to come up with something that's interesting.
Also, you can't just put a fiction label on something and excuse reality. This all occurs in one dimension. Doing something with no logic is unfair to those who respect the rules and operations by being logical. You can't just ignore gravity because it's fiction, for instance. This isn't a video game for schizophrenic people. It's a realistic fantasy RP game. You can't do whatever you want and just force everyone to go along with it.

By the way, the rules don't say no demons, dumbass. -_- Maybe I should make it a rule, though, just because it will make this kind of shit concrete. There's neither logic, nor originality, here. It's not acceptable for a Sein character; others are required to use logic and use something other than a liberally defined term that is spammed everywhere (just like you said, all over TV shows and games), so you shouldn't be an ass and try to cram down everyone's throats that your character has to be a demon, a half-demon, or whatever else. Grow up and revise your character concept.

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Post by Silver Fenrir » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:11 am

Defining what a "demon" or "angel" is seems rather fruitless. Blood sucking undead who die in sunlight are vampires to me while pasty white and sparky animal blood suckers are vampires to the next person. My point is that we should allow demons and angels but in multiple senses. We just have people define what exact demon or angel they are be it following biblical knowledge, something from a story or video game, or even something they made up. If specified and done correctly it should be allowed.

We shouldn't be sure strict on keeping them to only their biblical forms but we shouldn't be letting everything be demonic or angelic in nature if it doesn't follow well thought out logic. That's my opinion.
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